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Old 03-28-2020, 07:55 AM   #10676
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

By the time any judgment is rendered or settlement reached, Postle will have a zero or negative net worth, if he doesn't already. The civil suit has always been about going after Stones' wallet. Keeping Postle in the suit makes discovery easier. Same with Kuraitis.

The best that can be hoped for is that Postle/Kuraitis flip to make a stronger case against Stones, but even then, best possible result is still a pennies on the dollar settlement via PR damage threat. That threat is all but non-existent in the current news cycle, and Stones would have to survive until the settlement anyway, which may not happen given they've been closed the last ten days and are likely to remain closed for a while.

The only potential winner in this mess at this point is VerStandig's law firm (not a critique of them, they are doing what needs to be done) in the event of a settlement if Stones doesn't go bankrupt before then.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:15 AM   #10677
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I don't like many aspects of the USA system of justice, in many ways it is geared up far too much towards monetary compensation, as if receiving money is a truly valid substitute for justice.

You often see this in cases in the USA where criminal cases are lost and then a civil action is taken afterwards which awards huge sums of money against the defendant.

The other thing that is out of sync in USA justice IMO is that some financial crimes are punished with 999 year sentences but someone who physically batters someone almost to death in an unprovoked attack or during a robbery might get 10 or 15 years and not serve all of it, so why is the financial crime deemed to be 3 to 10 times worse?

And this Postle case is one in point, the plaintiffs seeking millions (lets say more realistically a couple of hundred thousand each in an out of court settlement, once the total awarded is divided between them), when their real financial losses are no more than 1/10th of that.

Real justice, assuming Postle is guilty and that this form of offence falls under the umbrella of a criminal offence, rather than just a civil offence, would be some kind of jail time, and the plaintiffs receiving the amount back they were cheated out of plus some interest, plus ~25% to ~50% of additional damages, not 100s of thousands of dollars each.

So for me, this case highlights some of the nonsense that surrounds parts of the USA legal/justice system. It is often too much about money, and not enough about true justice.

And if I were a defence counsel I would be introducing this an argument, that the plaintiffs are seeking to maximise the payout from this situation, which demonstrates that within their nature is greed using any and every tool or means available to them, the very thing that they are accusing the defendant of. I think this line of defence would to some degree damage the credibility and worthiness of the plaintiffs in the eyes of the jurors.

Last edited by Mikey_D; 03-28-2020 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:38 PM   #10678
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The only justice you can expect in a monetary dispute is $. Crude as that may seem, you aren't going to get your feet kissed on PBS. Win, lose or draw everyone but the attorneys are going to be disappointed.

You have to be an idiot to willingly participate in any US lawsuit.

The interesting angle I have not seen explored is that other players in the game were direct beneficiaries (partners) with the villains.

I do not see Stones' culpability. There is absolutely no incentive to corrupt a $1/3 poker game and risk their gaming license.

They are no more liable than the internet companies for the Nigerian scams. There is a long and meticulously documented history of cheating at poker. It is amusing that the poker experts in the game were surprised that cheating may have occurred, continued to play when it was suspected, or took so long to uncover it.

What is a greater defense than the fact they broadcasted live and then offered on-demand replays of the games?

When was the last time a bank robber bought TV time?

The plaintiffs are looking like the people that think they can beat the carnival games at Circus Circus.
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:15 AM   #10679
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I don't understand why it is difficult to prove. If he was using his cell phone to cheat, there should be a record of communication during that time. It should more or less correspond to his actions on video. Am I wrong to believe that information exists on at least two servers in log form? How long would that be kept, or is it ever deleted?
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:47 AM   #10680
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Those servers have long since been wiped or disposed of assuming Kuraitis has any sense of self preservation. Postle almost certainly "lost" his phone months ago as well. Cell tower records are the only hope there but the data was probably all xferred over wifi.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:00 AM   #10681
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdzilla View Post
I believe the marble races were fixed.
I actually ended up winning the very last one I did haha. I was a big fan of stones at the time and they sent me a free hat in the mail. I would have worn it every time I played live were it not for this nonsense.
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:13 AM   #10682
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I would have worn it every time I played live were it not for this nonsense.
sounds like Postle did you a solid
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:57 PM   #10683
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

You all see the Tweets about how back in 2006 the great Russ Hamilton was involved with a blackjack tournament show on CBS and “hand picked” Postle to play?

I’m on my phone so hard to post pics, but the twitter account is @capjack2000
Somewhat interesting...

Investigation Joey!
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:16 PM   #10684
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 04-02-2020, 08:17 PM   #10685
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Postle was “one of the biggest” winners on UB
Friends with Russ...








Reason: removed one of your words. use the ****ing profanity filter.

Last edited by R*R; 04-02-2020 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:54 PM   #10686
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Joey Ingram right now: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #10687
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Now I want to see a list of the other handpicked qualifiers.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:28 PM   #10688
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
Now I want to see a list of the other handpicked qualifiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Blackjack_Tour

EDIT: Also for those who are newer to the online poker world, here is a bio of Russ Hamilton (who's mentioned in the recent Tweets as being a producer for UBT).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_H..._(poker_player)

"On September 29, 2008, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission stated it had found clear and convincing evidence that, between the approximate dates of May 2004 and January 2008, Russ Hamilton was the main person responsible for, and benefiting from, multiple sophisticated cheating incidents at UltimateBet.[3][9] UltimateBet eventually refunded a total of $22,100,000 to the defrauded players.[4]"

Here's a 10-minute clip from a much longer conversation between Russ Hamilton and then-UB/AP/CEREUS collaborators -- discussing how they're going to handle information surrounding Russ Hamilton's cheating. Russ takes over the meeting and informs others how it's all going to go down starting at about [1:30].


Last edited by dhubermex; 04-02-2020 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 04-02-2020, 09:50 PM   #10689
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Thank you!
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:08 PM   #10690
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

We have to get postle a wikipedia page.
Anyone game?
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:21 PM   #10691
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by happy to be hear View Post
We have to get postle a wikipedia page.
Anyone game?
That's a good idea
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Old 04-02-2020, 11:46 PM   #10692
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdzilla View Post
...

I do not see Stones' culpability. There is absolutely no incentive to corrupt a $1/3 poker game and risk their gaming license.

They are no more liable than the internet companies for the Nigerian scams. There is a long and meticulously documented history of cheating at poker. It is amusing that the poker experts in the game were surprised that cheating may have occurred, continued to play when it was suspected, or took so long to uncover it.

..

The plaintiffs are looking like the people that think they can beat the carnival games at Circus Circus.
Stones failed to prevent this cheating, probably created or agreed to conditions that fostered it and may have agreed to the conditions because it sought a television series to market itself.

Pick one or more of those facts, if provable, and fund a tehory of libaiity.... ranging from promising a fair game to patrons, a duty perhaps under applicable gaming law to do so or takes steps to do so, gross negligence in failing to secure the information being transmitted in a live game environment, deceptive trasde practices ... .... who knows, I think there probably are grounds for Stones culpability and liablility.

A better question is whether this particular gaggle of plaintiffs suffered any injury in fact. I am sure some have such injury, but have no incentive to review the issue. Mac is a very decent attorney who can build a convincing case.

To answer another question, a civil plaintiff may sue on grouds of injury in violation of some duty by a defendant, and recover if the case is proven by a preponderence of the evudence. That is VERY different than reliance on some law enforcement agency to prosecute a case where it may not believe it can provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt. These are two very different processes.
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:14 AM   #10693
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

is that the same cap'n who allegedly put his dick on a girl in a poker room
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:21 AM   #10694
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

No, that Captain is Captain Tom Franklin
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:13 AM   #10695
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
is that the same cap'n who allegedly put his dick on a girl in a poker room
Give him some credit. I think it was actually when he was giving her a "huggle" back in his hotel room.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:39 PM   #10696
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Mikey_D View Post
I don't like many aspects of the USA system of justice, in many ways it is geared up far too much towards monetary compensation, as if receiving money is a truly valid substitute for justice.
In a civil suit, monetary compensation is basically ALL that is an option. The ONLY way to see incarceration is via criminal prosecution, which is NOT something the individual can bring. Criminal prosecution is an action brought by the State.

Quote:
You often see this in cases in the USA where criminal cases are lost and then a civil action is taken afterwards which awards huge sums of money against the defendant.
Civil suits can ALSO occur even in cases where a person was convicted in a criminal prosecution. One does not preclude the other...

Quote:
The other thing that is out of sync in USA justice IMO is that some financial crimes are punished with 999 year sentences but someone who physically batters someone almost to death in an unprovoked attack or during a robbery might get 10 or 15 years and not serve all of it, so why is the financial crime deemed to be 3 to 10 times worse?
You need to separate prosecution under federal law from those under State law. The monetary cases are often going to be federal sentences (whose terms are often defined in length by the number of months, not years, and rarely do you see a case with a sentence such as you describe- the media likes to aggregate the totals even though cumulation rarely occurs in the federal sentencing practices).

Where you see a shorter sentence on a violent crime, it is often because of the plea agreement offered BY the prosecutor and accepted by the Defendant. Where a jury recommended a short sentence following a trial on the merits (or even just a punishment hearing following an open plea of guilty), it is generally going to be due to the specific circumstances of the case.

And, since you don't seem to grasp reality...financial crimes with lengthy sentences are often because there were numerous victims who actually have suffered life-long harm. The short sentence violent crime outcome is often one victim without life-long harms having been sustained.

Percentages of sentence to be served is driven by the release practices of the jurisdiction. In the federal system, the individual will serve roughly 85% of the sentence without the benefit of parole. There are, however, still a small number of federal defendants who are serving sentences that were subject to the procedures in place when parole DID exist in that system.

In other jurisdictions, parole may or may not exist for a particular case. However, eligibility does not always confer an obligation to release someone on a supervised status. We still have people here in Texas who have been in continuous custodial confinement since before the 1960s's. Their conduct was so egregious that they won't ever be released. We also have some who were death sentences commuted to life following SCotUS decisions of the 1970's and, again, won't ever be released even though they have to be voted on a regular basis.

Quote:
And this Postle case is one in point, the plaintiffs seeking millions (lets say more realistically a couple of hundred thousand each in an out of court settlement, once the total awarded is divided between them), when their real financial losses are no more than 1/10th of that.
This would be because civil litigation recognizes actual damages plus punitive damages. Large amounts are frequently sought because it can be a tool in the settlement negotiations. Very few cases, civil OR criminal, ever actually see the light of a trial docket...

Quote:
Real justice, assuming Postle is guilty and that this form of offence falls under the umbrella of a criminal offence, rather than just a civil offence, would be some kind of jail time, and the plaintiffs receiving the amount back they were cheated out of plus some interest, plus ~25% to ~50% of additional damages, not 100s of thousands of dollars each.
That requires prosecutors being willing to present a case to the Grand Jury AND the Grand Jury be willing to return an Indictment AND the case be something that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You ALSO have some jurisdictions that will tell victims of financial crime that you can have pen time or you can have money...you aren't getting both. And, admittedly, the individual who is incarcerated WON'T be making payments because they DON"T HAVE MONEY in most cases, save for the few bucks a family member sends them. Sure some might have a prison job that pays pennies an hour or maybe produce items in a Craft Shop that can be sold at whatever someone is willing to pay, but that is the exception rather than the norm.

Quote:
And if I were a defence counsel I would be introducing this an argument, that the plaintiffs are seeking to maximise the payout from this situation, which demonstrates that within their nature is greed using any and every tool or means available to them, the very thing that they are accusing the defendant of. I think this line of defence would to some degree damage the credibility and worthiness of the plaintiffs in the eyes of the jurors.
Counsel for a Respondent in a civil case knows that there is next to no likelihood of the case ever even getting in front of a jury. They ALSO know that just because an amount is sought in the pleadings does NOT mean that a jury would actually award the amount requested. In those rare cases that DO actually get to a trial docket, the Plaintiff does not just get to say "I want X$ plus punitives." They STILL have to demonstrate that the amount sought for actual damages can be proven up...punitives are often driven by the relevant Rules of Civil Procedure.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:32 PM   #10697
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
is that the same cap'n who allegedly put his dick on a girl in a poker room
Absolutely not. Cap Jack is 100% one of the good guys.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:10 PM   #10698
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Thank you for the information about the USA legal system michelle227. I certainly wasn't aware of a lot of it.

I do stand by the thrust of my post that money plays too big a role in the USA justice system and can have the effect of punishments that are out of line with the crime, relative to other types of crime.

I still think someone committing an unprovoked or as part of a burglary savage assault, trying to kill someone, should receive a much closer in length of sentence to someone who stole $50M dollars from 500 investors. The former should be a higher sentence than is generally given in the USA and the latter should be a lower sentence than is generally given in the USA, so that the two lengths of sentences equalise, or move closer to each other.

Your point about harm being caused to multiple people is of course valid regarding very long sentences for financial crimes, but the same could be said could it not about criminals who import class A drugs? They too are causing harm to multiple people, as well as making financial gain, albeit the harm and the financial gain have separation, but drug importers as far as I am aware do not receive ~120 year sentences, as some financial criminals have.
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:49 PM   #10699
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That Postle thing on Ultimate BJ is wild. What a turn.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:50 PM   #10700
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Russ is a case study for noobs. He cheated people 1000x worse and didn't face justice.
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