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Old 09-29-2019, 06:40 PM   #1
Joeyrodsx3
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Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Surprised nobody has jumped on this to post here...

On Twitter yesterday I believe Mike Postle is being accused of cheating on Livestream. Not much proof (that has been shown) besides a lot of speculative hands. Will link the YouTube videos below.

Thoughts? The lines he takes are absolutely absurd but I don't see how he could be pulling this off.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
FAQ:

Q: Who is Mike Postle?
A: Mike Postle is a long time poker pro. He is suspected of having cheated at the video-streamed pokertable at Stones Gambling Hall in Sacramento

Q: How much money has Postle won from other players in these games?
A: Approximation is $250k (source https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=1066 )

Q: How statistically deviant is his play?
A: Very. Some calculations put it as more unlikely than 1 to the number of atoms in the universe. See bb/100 vs VPIP graph: https://i.gyazo.com/9640d7665da6f5fb...c935334fbb.png (Source unknown)

Q: How do people think he cheated?
A: Likely via getting the exact holecards of his opponents relayed to his phone which he keeps very discretely between his legs while playing, and/or to bone conductive headphones hidden under his hat. This would likely require access to the actual live feed from the RFID/tech-room

Q: Who is Justin Kuraitis?
A: An employee and TD of Stones Gambling hall. He's responsible for the tech team that runs the livestream. He's for a multitude of reasons suspected to be Mike's possible inside man in the possible cheating scheme

Q: But Postle doesn't always win when he plays
A: True. He has had losing sessions on stream where he plays quite normally. They seem to coincide with Justin Kuraitis being out of town.

Q: Is the stream commentated on in real time when the play takes place, or on delay?
A: It's commented on delay, as all streams of this kind are. Only the RFID tech room has (read: should have) access to the actual live footage and hands. They then set up the graphics etc, and transmit that footage delayed to the commentary booth and viewers.

Q: Who is Taylor Smith?
A: Another tech team employee of Stones Live Casino. Some consider him suspect due to his involvement in correcting holecards for a crazy hand Mike played, among other things. It's still unclear what Mike's actual holecards were in that infamous hand (68o, or 89ss). T.S may be entirely innocent and should be treated as such, just as Postle and Kuraitis should be until found guilty in a court of law

Q: Why is this blowing wide open just now this week?
A: A former employee and commentator of the stream, @Angry_Polak, took to twitter. @joeingram1 took her allegations seriously, as opposed to many others she had previously raised her suspicions to, and then the ball started rolling

Further reading:

Longer cliff-notes/Summary: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=1045

Pokernews links:
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...ames-35562.htm
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/...tion-35584.htm

Local Fox40 news: https://fox40.com/2019/10/03/poker-w...g-allegations/

ESPN segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixqxi9Aq84Y
Joeingram (chicagojoey) youtube page with deep-going investigating of Mike's play: https://www.youtube.com/user/joeingram1/videos
Doug Polk video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kDtE9vrRiA

Mod edit: Here is a summary of Postle's sessions made by one of the many members who have spent tons of hours reviewing the Stones Live videos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
This document made by Utopia needs to go in the OP and is an absolute thing of beauty - notice the bottom tabs

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2044248290



October 13, 2019 edit:

Post about lawsuit filing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryKane09 View Post
https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link...e-dc7d1610c53b

Mac VerStandig shared this. Interesting that Kasey Lyn Mills is there; the commentator that many thought was in on it. Surely if she was she wouldn't file against them

mod edit (oct 13, 2019): added another good "summary" post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQofTwoPlusTwo View Post
What if I told you that the exact win rate doesn't matter?

a) The dramatic change in behavior July 18th that coincided with a dramatic change in results.

b) Numerous occasions where Postle prompted other players to rescan their cards as if he knew the live feed had not picked them up.

c) The visible frustration of the PLO hand were the live feed was only picking up two cards.

d) The changing of the cards hand. How did anyone know the cards of mucked unseen hand were wrong in the middle of the hand?

e) The ability to shove when the opponent was weak, fold when strong time after time after time never getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

f) Almost identical hands played completely differently when the opponent was strong versus when they were weak. Example after Example. Never wrong.

g) The strange staring at the crotch, phone off the table behaviors, never exhibited in previous losing sessions.

h) The booth interview where he seemingly knows when and where the live stream cut off and came back on.

Notice not one single bit of these pieces of evidence have the slightest thing to do with exactly how much he won, how often he reloaded, did he rebuy, how much he added on, how much is exact win rate was, or if he tipped the waitress or not.

Doing all of the above, it doesn't even matter if he lost money overall, it doesn't matter what his exact to 6 decimal places win rate was, these all indicate that he was aware of the live stream in real time. He cheated.
Spreadsheet with information on Postle sessions:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2044248290

Last edited by R*R; 01-10-2020 at 04:42 AM. Reason: add spreadsheet
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Old 09-29-2019, 06:40 PM   #2
Joeyrodsx3
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/pH8Fjro2oJs
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Old 09-29-2019, 06:41 PM   #3
Joeyrodsx3
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/BATKzg3Wu0I
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:11 PM   #4
BornToPun
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I'm curious to see if anyone will offer any really compelling evidence here (i.e., something more than "look at all these hands he's played weirdly.") I played with him once on stream and he definitely takes some interesting lines and my understanding is that he is a big winner in the game. That alone is enough to raise your eyebrows but nowhere near enough to confidently say he is cheating.

For the record (because I've seen people be confused about this before) - the players in the game are all allowed to have their phones out and many are watching the stream (on its ~20 minute delay). They also will put the stream on a TV near the table if players ask. To pull this off one would most likely need a confederate who's involved running the IT side of the stream and somehow passing info to the player.

Hopefully there is a good investigation and hopefully Mike's name gets cleared.
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:20 PM   #5
twalf
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

who on twitter was accusing?
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:43 PM   #6
dhubermex
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twalf View Post
who on twitter was accusing?
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:52 PM   #7
pokervangelist
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

1000% cheating!
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:53 PM   #8
Loctus
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Just find a clip of him betting pot into the nuts or calling off his stack behind one single time and then it's over. Anyone?
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:58 PM   #9
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I love the we investigated this guy and they said he isn't cheating and I have no proof he's cheating, so I'm going to post 17 tweets saying it's likely he's cheating and then everyone thinks he's cheating logic.

and the classic i'll throw a stat that he'd be in the 95th percentile with not really calculating it but throwing out 95% because that's a nice number to make my point
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:15 PM   #10
TooCuriousso1
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That QJ fold vs Marle on the turn is the most glarying imo
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:53 PM   #11
pokervangelist
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Go to 7:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L6DueV9aHc
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:59 PM   #12
twalf
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

does he ever play off stream? should be relatively easy to tell if he is super using based on how he plays at a standard table.

i cant believe that someone would go to the effort of hacking the live video feed and then blow it all up by playing like a complete monster and crushing souls rather than peacefully grinding out wins and staying below the radar.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:02 PM   #13
DK Barrel
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokervangelist View Post
Not sure what this is supposed to prove. Folding an overpair when the top card pairs in a protected pot makes perfect sense. If it's because he would have boated up on the river, even if he was cheating he couldn't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poogs Local View Post
I love the we investigated this guy and they said he isn't cheating and I have no proof he's cheating, so I'm going to post 17 tweets saying it's likely he's cheating and then everyone thinks he's cheating logic.

and the classic i'll throw a stat that he'd be in the 95th percentile with not really calculating it but throwing out 95% because that's a nice number to make my point
The tweets are from one of the commentators/hosts of the show, so just the accusation is newsworthy. It's not some twitter rando throwing it out there.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:08 PM   #14
DK Barrel
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by twalf View Post
does he ever play off stream? should be relatively easy to tell if he is super using based on how he plays at a standard table.

i cant believe that someone would go to the effort of hacking the live video feed and then blow it all up by playing like a complete monster and crushing souls rather than peacefully grinding out wins and staying below the radar.
If you're especially cynical, the fact that he plays in such an entertaining manner is a draw for players and viewers -- some of the streams are even named after him. Or maybe being the loose cannon is just how he's able to lock up a seat week after week, I don't watch Stones Live often enough to recognize if there are many other regulars.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:12 PM   #15
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

some very weird hands indeed, fold with QJ is out of this world especially given how sticky he seems to be with much weaker hands relatively speaking but so everytime seems to have the better hand when he does decide to be sticky

that said it's not impossible he's just a fish on a heater
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:18 PM   #16
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Not sure what this is supposed to prove. Folding an overpair when the top card pairs in a protected pot makes perfect sense. If it's because he would have boated up on the river, even if he was cheating he couldn't know that.



The tweets are from one of the commentators/hosts of the show, so just the accusation is newsworthy. It's not some twitter rando throwing it out there.
Based on his play versus similar flops no freaking way he is EVER folding KK there face up. His fanboys will defend him to the end.... Based on his play he would be destroyed at any high limit game in Vegas. Oh, I forgot he doesn't travel only plays at Turning Stone. That right there is a soul read
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:23 PM   #17
DK Barrel
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
some very weird hands indeed, fold with QJ is out of this world especially given how sticky he seems to be with much weaker hands relatively speaking but so everytime seems to have the better hand when he does decide to be sticky

that said it's not impossible he's just a fish on a heater
I assume it's the hand here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH8Fjro2oJs#t=7m20s

Doesn't seem that weird to me either It's 3/4 pot and he's only ahead of JT. If Marle's a tight player it's an easy fold.

I think it's plausible that someone who plays as recklessly as he does and seems to have the results he does could be cheating, I don't think "he tightens up against tight players" is much proof of anything.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:40 PM   #18
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokervangelist View Post
Based on his play versus similar flops no freaking way he is EVER folding KK there face up. His fanboys will defend him to the end.... Based on his play he would be destroyed at any high limit game in Vegas. Oh, I forgot he doesn't travel only plays at Turning Stone. That right there is a soul read
It was a bomb pot. None of these hands seem suspicious to me.
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:48 PM   #19
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH8F...ature=youtu.be
A2o - even if you are superusing, with AK and TT out it seems wise to fold A2o. now on turn when he makes it 5k, why doesn't he just jam and end the hand. If opponent goes over the top with 97 then he has to call (or lose); if 97 calls then that player has 10 outs.

KK hand - protected pot

QJ hand - obviously stupid but he could also feel that she has a sizing tell. This is one of the most suspect hands though

54o hand - he calls a raise on the button, and it comes KK5, both players check (JT, A9) and he decides to check ???? imo if he was superusing, he should just want to end the hand with this many overs. If for example he checks and it comes like J, he may raise and still lose the hand. now on river, if he's superusing he should bet something that wants to be called, like 600 or whatever.

A9 hand he has a read that a dude donking into preflop 3better has nothing


IMO after looking at the hands, looks like he's not superusing. Now could he just have some sort of buzzing device that indicates when his opponent has the worst hand or not? That makes sense for a few hands I mentioned but not all. So its possible but I would probably lean no. I would like to see more hands though, preferably losing ones.

Last edited by Alex Wice; 09-29-2019 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-29-2019, 11:08 PM   #20
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Just find a clip of him betting pot into the nuts or calling off his stack behind one single time and then it's over. Anyone?
yeah, everyone is posting hands where this guy wins. let's see some big pots where he loses?
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Old 09-29-2019, 11:26 PM   #21
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

These allegations is straight forward BS. When you play live you can see if players are nervous or comfortable, it is simply impossible to hide emotions unless you are affected by substances. The guy whoever he is - simply is a good live player. Look at Adelstein or what his name is, how he is always fishing for information even if others think he is just messing around.
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:08 AM   #22
PapaPackerPoker
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Mike Postle interview with Justin Kuraitis 1-23-2019 and some suspect hand reviews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWuc4hHT-w
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:45 AM   #23
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaPackerPoker View Post
Mike Postle interview with Justin Kuraitis 1-23-2019 and some suspect hand reviews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWuc4hHT-w
Some real next level hand analysis, I can see why he crushes live poker
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:31 AM   #24
Maxeth
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This is what playing street poker and running like god looks like. Nobody would care or dare to accuse if this was garret instead of mike. Kinda reminds me of brad booth too. Maybe you should shut up and be thankful this guy is driving the action for all the generic nit pros to profit off of. It seems the average no limit nit cant even do that these days...
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:27 AM   #25
ChicagoJoey
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaPackerPoker View Post
Mike Postle interview with Justin Kuraitis 1-23-2019 and some suspect hand reviews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWuc4hHT-w
Thanks for this - very interesting hand breakdowns and interview.

https://youtu.be/uuWuc4hHT-w?t=373

"I wasn't quite sure what they had of...."


Who knows what it means but funny given the context of the allegations.



Quote:
Originally Posted by twalf View Post
does he ever play off stream? should be relatively easy to tell if he is super using based on how he plays at a standard table.

i cant believe that someone would go to the effort of hacking the live video feed and then blow it all up by playing like a complete monster and crushing souls rather than peacefully grinding out wins and staying below the radar.
You would think so right? Only an idiot would ever get caught cheating on a live stream. It's incredibly easy to stay under the radar.


I've seen some people compare his play to Garrett's play, seems like they play much different ranges pre-flop and use much different strategies post-flop with those ranges.

Who knows what to make of all of this but the security in the live streams i've seen and the enforcement is non-existent so the possibility to do something OOL is incredibly easy.


I like this guys style.

https://www.twitch.tv/stoneslivepoke...inkbugPipeHype
https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilBenevolentSandwichBIRB

lol this is what it takes to beat him, these HHs are pretty sick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hPmOpd_wBs
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticTrappedMagpieShazBotstix

Last edited by ChicagoJoey; 09-30-2019 at 04:55 AM.
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