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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2013, 06:49 PM   #1401
xalas
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by 3 Bullits View Post
JY,
If your boss was around until October when Sheets and the others won why don't you post pics of texts/emails he sent you from April-October asking you for updates on the CM situation while blacking out his name/number/email address.
.
Interesting idea but redacted emails would open more questions then answers, undoubtedly people would question their authenticity if they can't be confirmed in some matter.
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:51 PM   #1402
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Can change dates:times on the iPhone pretty easily.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:07 PM   #1403
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by navs View Post
Can change dates:times on the iPhone pretty easily.
+1

Any email forwarded can be edited. Giving a third party direct access to your own email acct may be an option but then everything on your email is out there.
If Chris would escrow the money JY should consider it. I think A fair deal would be the third party reading the emails is the arbitrator and if he/she found the evidence of a bookie satisfactory he/she could release the funds to JY.

JY may state he is not crazy enough to keep the emails from a bookie about illegal activity. However he did threaten to post all this info on 2+2 before Chris did a preemptive strike. 2+2 seems a lot less private then your own email.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #1404
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by navs View Post
Can change dates:times on the iPhone pretty easily.
think i found the e-mail
(time line maybe off)

RE:2003 champ owns you money boss.
That's great news J i could had used that money like yesterday but right now i'm way over my head so i'm going to skip out of town for a few years so i'll let you handle it, consider it a bonus.
-daBossMan
p.s. gl with your restaurant
peace out
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:19 PM   #1405
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by xalas View Post
think i found the e-mail
(time line maybe off)

RE:2003 champ owns you money boss.
That's great news J i could had used that money like yesterday but right now i'm way over my head so i'm going to skip out of town for a few years so i'll let you handle it, consider it a bonus.
-daBossMan
p.s. gl with your restaurant
peace out
Lol
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #1406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzitup View Post
There is going to be a ton of posts with people saying all kinds of different things. It will get confusing, and most of it will make no sense.

The bottom line...you lost money to Jason, you pay him. What he is doing with the other guys is none of your business.
One week later.

Good foreshadowing.

I didn't see charity angle though.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:03 PM   #1407
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by JamesD816 View Post
I think A fair deal would be the third party reading the emails is the arbitrator and if he/she found the evidence of a bookie satisfactory he/she could release the funds to JY.
This scenario has been offered to JY and his sock puppets for about 86 pages and he/they refuse. What do you think that tells you? An even easier solution would have been the following:

I know if I were in JY's situation, I would have approached CM over the last 18 months. I would have wanted to address his concerns about being scammed. I would have met with him in person and asked him to keep everything confidential. Then, I would have pulled out my lap top, cell phone, bank statements, and betting records for him to review- but not keep or copy. After he was satisfied, we could have discussed payment terms. No need for any third party, sheets, PStars, or 2+2. You settle it like 2 grown a$$ men.

Instead what does JY do:

He throws CM under the bus with all the other players he owes
He (if true) tries to shakedown pokerstars
He goes to 2+2

Seriously? What does this tell you?

Last edited by TheRiverSniper; 11-02-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:09 PM   #1408
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Seriously? What does this tell you?
How can he possibly find time to do all that when he is working 145 hours a week?
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:13 PM   #1409
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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How can he possibly find time to do all that when he is working 145 hours a week?
LMAO
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #1410
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Let me see if I get this correctly...

- CM said he will not pay JY X amount of money because he thinks he was freerolled.
- JY has to prove he was solvent and hasn't been freerolling CM

anyone catching same thing as I do?
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:19 PM   #1411
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
He (if true) tries to shakedown pokerstars

Can you imagine what the "management" of PokerStars must have thought when it started receiving correspondence from Jason????

I believe Chris that it happened but it's so ridiculous I can't even fathom Jason doing it.

Unbelievable!!!
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #1412
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
Can you imagine what the "management" of PokerStars must have thought when it started receiving correspondence from Jason????

I believe Chris that it happened but it's so ridiculous I can't even fathom Jason doing it.

Unbelievable!!!
PokerStars probably decided that they weren't going to hold the company Christmas party at the Turn.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:27 PM   #1413
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
PokerStars probably decided that they weren't going to hold the company Christmas party at the Turn.
That is because the restaurant is already booked for the FBI.

EDIT: FBI Christmas party of course.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #1414
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
That is because the restaurant is already booked for the FBI.

EDIT: FBI Christmas party of course.
You guys should do stand up on the side

These 1 liners are golden.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #1415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
Can you imagine what the "management" of PokerStars must have thought when it started receiving correspondence from Jason????

I believe Chris that it happened but it's so ridiculous I can't even fathom Jason doing it.

Unbelievable!!!
You guys are all naive fools. Bettors default all the time and you use whatever pressure you need to collect. Harass family, work, friends, Internet (2+2), etc.

Used to be able to use violence. One bookie I knew would absolute call work. He loved to brag how he called someone's dad repeatedly.

Wake up with dogs...
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:32 PM   #1416
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
PokerStars probably decided that they weren't going to hold the company Christmas party at the Turn.
"Hellos, To whom it may concirn,

My namz is JYoung dogz and I want to make a formeel complant against Chris Moneymaker.

He owez me 80 large but Id settle for 25k today."
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:33 PM   #1417
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
You guys are all naive fools. Bettors default all the time and you use whatever pressure you need to collect. Harass family, work, friends, Internet (2+2), etc.

Used to be able to use violence. One bookie I knew would absolute call work. He loved to brag how he called someone's dad repeatedly.

Wake up with dogs...
In that case we should all start calling Jason's grandma and babysitter to try to pressure him.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:34 PM   #1418
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
That is because the restaurant is already booked for the FBI.

EDIT: FBI Christmas party of course.
I see what you did there.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #1419
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Stars had not contacted me in any way about this and the charity was my idea. Jason contacted stars a few months ago to try and get paid and it failed.
Actually, I was the one that said give the money to charity first and you thought it was a good idea.
Just giving credit where credit is due.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:41 PM   #1420
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What do people think bookies do when they don't get paid? They don't have any legal means.

They harass, embarrass, and annoy repeatedly. Name of the game. It got MM pretty close to paying. Didn't quite go to plan.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #1421
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
What do people think bookies do when they don't get paid? They don't have any legal means.

They harass, embarrass, and annoy repeatedly. Name of the game. It got MM pretty close to paying. Didn't quite go to plan.
except Jason says he is not the bookie...
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #1422
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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How can he possibly find time to do all that when he is working 145 hours a week?
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:50 AM   #1423
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by xalas View Post
except Jason says he is not the bookie...
which is the most hilarious part that a lot of people are missing.

If Jason was not the bookie, the small % as an agent he hopes to collect for the bookie isn't worth the hassle. This isn't his problem, it's the bookies.

Jason said he COVERED Chris' bet in full beforehand thinking Chris was good for it. THIS IS WHY he is collecting. If Jason can prove he covered, that should be sufficient enough.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:06 AM   #1424
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by potatokmish View Post
Wow, I just spent 2 days reading this thread. Probably will be the only internet thread I remember for the rest of my life! Here are my thoughts. For the record I have never played any poker in my life outside of college games 30 years ago. I do not know any of you guys here at all except for one individual that asked me to read this thread 2 days ago. But, I have gambled on sports for 35 years so have seen/heard every degen story and witnessed freeroll attempts. I actually might have been freerolled a few years ago and this is how I handled my situation to give you some perspective on what I felt was right for me.

I was introduced to a bookie by an acquaintance who is not a gambler. The acquaintance knew I gambled on sports. I currently have 2 very big solid outs that receive all of my action. One of my guys has paid me close to $75,000 just in past year with never an issue; the other has paid me close to $40,000 so I was definitely not looking for a 3rd out, but I accepted this account primarily because of the relationship I have with the referral source. 6 months later I lose $3200 to the new guy. I learn that in the meantime from my acquaintance that his neighbor had won $50,000 on the LSU/Bama BCS game. Basically the neighbor bet $2000 on every Bama prop bet imaginable and crushed this guy. Bookie paid $22000 and told the neighbor he couldn't pay the rest. Well, I send him my $ monday morning before he even asked for it without a second thought because my debt is my debt. I do not mention to him that I know he is slowpaying the neighbor. Sort've want to win it back just out of principal.

Fast forward 1 year. I lose $4100 more. Feel annoyed now because I have won steadily from my other guys, but channel the losers to this guy. He texts me asking if I can meet him at end of week. In turn I call my acquaintance to see if his neighbor has been paid the $22,000 that has been owed for 1 1/2 years. Zip nothing.

So, at this point I could tell the bookie that I know he hasn't paid a $22,000 debt and until he does I won't pay him. But I feel this is the wrong thing for me to do. I made the bets. And I now had knowledge that he was not reliable when I made the bets. So, my fault. But I have to pay.

But, the bookie did not know that I knew he did not pay my acquaintance's neighbor.

So, I drove an hour to the acquaintance's office I handed him $4100. I replied to the bookie's text that I would be out of town at the end of this week but I was having lunch at the time with the referral source and I put the money in his hands to give to him. So, as it turns out the bookie allowed my friend to give it to his neighbor so the neighbor's balance is now $18000. If I wanted to be a degenerate, I could have used the knowledge of the neighbor's situation to get a free roll. I could have got into a pissing contest with the bookie about his integrity. I kept my mouth shut. I paid my debt, but in a way that I knew it would be likely that the bookie would have to turn over the money to the owed party. In the meantime I kept my honor. I will not play with this guy again.

In the sports gambling world there are a lot of guys that bet/accept bets first and come up with the stories second. yes, these are degenerate gamblers that will rationalize their behavior to satisfy their gambling needs.

MM made bets. I believe the right move is to pay. MM may feel differently.
To me, the bottom line is we must fully research a book BEFORE we make the decision to bet. I bet with an acquaintance's bookie, but I did not know for myself if he was solvent. I took the referral from my acquaintance at face value. My fault. I have to pay. My main guy has been booking for people I know for 35 years. His track record is impeccable. I did not need to accept this 3rd account. Once I did, I accepted the risk of being rolled.

MM accepted the risk when he accepted the relationship. It sucks big time, but the right move is to hold your head high and pay; and never play with Jason again.

Jason, you are a classic case of the guy that found himself in the situation of robbing Peter to pay Paul. You might not formulate ill intent. You might be a nice guy, but the bottom line is you can not have a sheet with players and just "hope" that the credits outweigh the debits. It does not work that way all of the time. Winners need to be paid and losers do not always pay on time. Insolvency and bookmaking are not a happily married couple. Good luck with your restaurant. Work hard. Do not place assets at risk you can not afford to lose. Especially your family and your business. They are your greatest assets outside of your health.
This is well explained and well written. ^^^ This is the law of The Book: never to be broken, or you windup in MM's predicament. Finally a poster that knows how the game is played. Very Good Job Sir.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:12 AM   #1425
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by gameoverjc View Post
which is the most hilarious part that a lot of people are missing.

If Jason was not the bookie, the small % as an agent he hopes to collect for the bookie isn't worth the hassle. This isn't his problem, it's the bookies.

Jason said he COVERED Chris' bet in full beforehand thinking Chris was good for it. THIS IS WHY he is collecting. If Jason can prove he covered, that should be sufficient enough.
So Jason paid the bookie Chris' bet, Chris lost and Jason is holding the bag hoping Chris pays him, does that mean if Chris had won Jason was going to pay Chris and also be out the money the bookie kept (double the money) or is he saying that if and ONLY if Chris had won then his bookie would had given back to Jason the money for Chris' bet that he covered? and he is being loyal to this crook, that left him holding the bag to collect Chris' lost and paying Chris his own money + he would be out the money he gave to the book? do I have that right?

Last edited by xalas; 11-03-2013 at 02:18 AM.
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