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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:59 AM   #1326
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flopp_deuces View Post
True, I kinda wanna just see a debate between JY and MM without any other posters in the middle of it. That would be entertainment at its finest.
PMs - but I don't believe there has been any between the two of them from reading this thread
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #1327
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

[QUOTE=TheRiverSniper;40852136]Yes, because the circumstantial evidence indicates JY was busto as well. Bet is void.


Many people in this thread think this is THE point, key, crux of the issue.

But MM and JY placed themselves in a unique world, the world of large stake, illegal book based gambling. Is that a world where that is an accepted reason to void, taint, W word a bet? Sniper, do you participate in that world?

I have seen only one post in the thread by someone, not a poker based gambler, but a 30 year participant in that world, who uses terms like gamblers honor, hold your head up high, etc, who states in that world, MM should take responsibility for His, and HIS ALONES behavior. That satisfies gamblers honor.

The bets don't have to be paid legally, morally, or to satisfy anybodies made up criteria of what constitutes a real, untainted bet. The issue has to be resolved just to an extent that the parties own idea of what that term, honor in that world, means.

If MM giving the money to charity does that, so be it, he has to live in that world, not us. I think it's a good choice and JY should accept graciously, learn from his mistakes and put this episode behind him. If not, well, the thread continues.

Last edited by ContactGSW; 11-02-2013 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:04 PM   #1328
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

[QUOTE=ContactGSW;40852551]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Yes, because the circumstantial evidence indicates JY was busto as well. Bet is void.


Many people in this thread think this is THE point, key, crux of the issue.

But have MM and JY placed themselves in a world, ie the world of large stake, illegal book based gambling. Is that a world where that is an accepted reason to void, taint, W word a bet? Sniper, do you participate in that world?

I have seen only one post in the thread by someone, not a poker based gambler, but a 30 year participant in that world, who uses terms like gamblers honor, hold your head up high, etc, who states in that world, MM should take responsibility for His, and HIS ALONES behavior. That satisfies gamblers honor.

The bets don't have to be paid legally, morally, or to satisfy anybodies made up criteria of what constitutes a real, untainted bet. The issue has to be resolved just to an extent that the parties own idea of what that term, honor in that world, means.

If MM giving the money to charity does that, so be it, he has to live in that world, not us. I think it's a good choice and JY should accept graciously, learn from his mistakes and put this episode behind him. If not, well, the thread continues.
As I said before, proof that the anti-JY crowd has been seeking - account details with bookie, bank statements of JY will just not occur due to the nature of the transaction - reputation and reputation alone will solve this issue and as MM accepts, JY's reputation before he lost the bet in question was sound.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #1329
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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What circumstantial evidence?
Geezuz, now you are just being obtuse. Read the damn thread. Do you really need me to relist all of the sketchy parts of JY's story that have been discussed for 86 pages??? You just dont want to listen

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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
That is fantastic that you are so impartial.
Which is why I am universally loved and respected. Especially by the ladies. Wooow!!!


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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Again - and I shouldn't have to repeat myself - the whereabouts or the naming of the bookie doesn't matter.
Yes it does. And proof of JY's solvency matters. Prove those 2 points, and you have proven MM has not been free rolled and JY gets his money. Otherwise he does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
MM has not challenged that JY has the rights to collect this money and again going back to the actual timeline of events - MM won the $5k bet, he chose to let it ride which meant that he had confidence in the bookie or JY being able to pay if he had a further win and as we know he lost that bet - confessed to owing the money to JY in subsequent texts but as we now know in this thread has come up with some excuses as to why he shouldn't pay which appear to be fabricated as it isn't backed up by the evidence.
There was no bookie and JY was busto. If not prove it. Burden of proof rests with JY.

See the following Supreme Court case:

Truth vs Duck (Looks, Walks,and Quacks)
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:13 PM   #1330
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
See the following Supreme Court case:

Truth vs Duck (Looks, Walks,and Quacks)
Oh god what a great line. Stealing this one.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:14 PM   #1331
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
I can see PH supporting MM - but PH supports anyone with a bracelet
He might stay out of this one then as both CM and JY have WSOP bracelets.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #1332
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Geezuz, now you are just being obtuse. Read the damn thread. Do you really need me to relist all of the sketchy parts of JY's story that have been discussed for 86 pages??? You just dont want to listen
Circumstantial evidence better not include sheets or assani (oh wait that is all you have)


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Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Which is why I am universally loved and respected. Especially by the ladies. Wooow!!!
Thanks for that. The only thing that should make you feel good about yourself in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Yes it does. And proof of JY's solvency matters. Prove those 2 points, and you have proven MM has not been free rolled and JY gets his money. Otherwise he does not.
No it doesn't. Bookie or no bookie - prior history between JY and MM and the fact that MM let the first bet ride proves to me that MM had a reasonable expectation of being paid back if he had won in relation to the bet in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post

There was no bookie and JY was busto. If not prove it. Burden of proof rests with JY.

See the following Supreme Court case:

Truth vs Duck (Looks, Walks,and Quacks)
See above and lol anyway for not following logic and your own man's OP.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:19 PM   #1333
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Why is it ok to out Moneymaker as a scammer who stole from you, but not out the bookie?

Nobody has answered this.

Bookie disappears and ****s someone over, nobody says who it is, continues to do it to other people.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #1334
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

One other thing, concerning Gamblers Honor, while interesting in a rubber necking NVG drooling sort of way, JY putting those private texts in this thread is outrageous behavior, dishonorable at best, and he should apologize.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #1335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
Why is it ok to out Moneymaker as a scammer who stole from you, but not out the bookie?

Nobody has answered this.

Bookie disappears and ****s someone over, nobody says who it is, continues to do it to other people.
There was no bookie
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #1336
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Thanks for that.
Your welcome. I knew that you would see things my way. Now:

1-Have JY prove that there was a bookie and

2- that JY was solvent

to a confidential, mutually trusted, 3rd party , and JY gets his money. If not, you, JY, and his few supporters need to just stop and go away.



BTW, time is running out for him on this as well. Because the likelihood that he will try to scheme and contact a new story seems likely. I would not be surprised if in a few days he does a 180 and has a new story on the "bookie".

Last edited by TheRiverSniper; 11-02-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:35 PM   #1337
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Neither has JY addressed the claim that he was pressing MM for the cash by claiming his boss was hassling him for the money, while at the same time telling people he owed to that this mysterious boss had vanished and left him up the creek.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #1338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContactGSW View Post
One other thing, concerning Gamblers Honor, while interesting in a rubber necking NVG drooling sort of way, JY putting those private texts in this thread is outrageous behavior, dishonorable at best, and he should apologize.
I do believe MM's conduct over an extended period of 18 months (including ITT) led him to it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #1339
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Chris,

Is there a reason that you can't get any of the guys you mention in this quote to post in this thread to help corroborate your version of the timeline?

Quote:
As I am sitting in airport headed home I get a Skype message from another guy that used to bet in the forum. He asked if Jason owed me money and I responded that I owed him. He told me Jason has owed him 18k for a few weeks and hadn't paid and asked I pay him instead of Jason. I told him at that time I would not pay Jason and pay him. When I got home I stalled paying Jason to see how the situation would shake out. Over the next 2 months 2 other people I know messaged me asking if Jason owed me money. I gave them dame answer that I owed him. The total thathe owed the 3 guys was over 40k.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #1340
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loubrown View Post
There was no bookie
I agree with what you are saying. But Jason Young is claiming there is, and won't out him because "he doesn't rat people out", yet he rats out chris moneymaker. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy to people who say things like "lol@ thinking jason will out his bookie".

But I agree with you. Even if I agree with you I can still pose the question to others willing to comment.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #1341
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAtR View Post
Neither has JY addressed the claim that he was pressing MM for the cash by claiming his boss was hassling him for the money, while at the same time telling people he owed to that this mysterious boss had vanished and left him up the creek.
From what I understand based on the timeline there was roughly a 4 or 5 month gap between when Moneymaker incurred his debt and when the mysterious boss vanished and Young assumed that debt.

Moneymaker what is the story? In your early posts you seemed to indicate that you found out right away that Jason had outstanding debts. The texts and other information posted seem to indicate that those debts were not incurred until months later. (Except for Assani's $2k.)

Please answer this.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:45 PM   #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Your welcome. I knew that you would see things my way. Now:

1-Have JY prove that there was a bookie and

2- that JY was solvent

to a confidential, mutually trusted, 3rd party , and JY gets his money. If not, you, JY, and his few supporters need to just stop and go away.



BTW, time is running out for him on this as well. Because the likelihood that he will try to scheme and contact a new story seems likely. I would not be surprised if in a few days he does a 180 and has a new story on the "bookie".
Yeah just like the numerous different stories MM came up with in those texts about how he was going to pay JY back
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #1343
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
I agree with what you are saying. But Jason Young is claiming there is, and won't out him because "he doesn't rat people out", yet he rats out chris moneymaker. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy to people who say things like "lol@ thinking jason will out his bookie".

But I agree with you. Even if I agree with you I can still pose the question to others willing to comment.
Yes. JY and the bookie story is equivalent to Oliver Stones version of the JFK assassination. Its an entertaining work of fiction.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
I agree with what you are saying. But Jason Young is claiming there is, and won't out him because "he doesn't rat people out", yet he rats out chris moneymaker. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy to people who say things like "lol@ thinking jason will out his bookie".

But I agree with you. Even if I agree with you I can still pose the question to others willing to comment.
He rats out MM because it's been 18 months since he lost and there is no realistic possibility he will pay. Doesn't out the bookie as that is never custom in this practice and could cost him life or limb??
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #1345
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

There was obviously no bookie, MM was obviously getting freerolled, JY comes off as total standard scumbag.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #1346
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Doesn't out the bookie as that is never custom in this practice and could cost him life or limb??
So Jason is a pussy....Also doesn't have a backbone.


Edit: Here is a thought. If you out an illegal bookie by name, and something ends up happening to you via violence, then the police/FBI would easily track that person down and have them locked up. You really think a bookie (who ran out on his clients like a gigantic coward), has the balls to hurt someone who publicy outed them?

A bookie who ran out on his debts is one person, yet he probably ran out on multiple people, you really think he is the one who is going to strike against people who outed him? Sounds like the bookie should be the one in fear of his life (or losing a limb as you say) since he is one person who allegedly scammed multiple people.

All this doesn't matter since there was no bookie...but alas.

Last edited by andrewga; 11-02-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:04 PM   #1347
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I appreciate all you guys have opinions and want the whole story and want to debate about it. I was personally involved obv and know what happened. I could of easily paid jason and been done instead of taking this line. I am paying the money out to a charity as I think that is best course because I was wrong during this time as well and need to pay up.

If jason can somehow prove to ME not you guys he had cash in May (my timeline was wrong as I made the bets in may not April) or somehow prove the bookie is real as he told me they were in business for 5 years at one point or show me the computer betting sheets of the people I pmed him about I will do what I said 2000 posts ago. I will pay him and apologize. I have requested this and got no answer just a phone call with promises and assurances.

As for the text messages he posted they don't bother me that they public. I am a big boy in more ways than one and I am also human and I overextended myself for awhile with loans. I have tried to learned that lesson and don't loan or borrow anymore with anyone. But that's my issue
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:06 PM   #1348
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

As for the thread I will leave it for you guys to debate and will only look for ideas on charities.

Make a wish is the first one I have choosen.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:06 PM   #1349
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Still no Runaway Bookie gimmick itt?
 
Old 11-02-2013, 01:06 PM   #1350
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
He rats out MM because it's been 18 months since he lost and there is no realistic possibility he will pay. Doesn't out the bookie as that is never custom in this practice and could cost him life or limb??
Don't go there. A bookie whose practice involves "life and limb" does not at all operate in the manner that JY has described ITT. Thats is where he lost many of us ITT. And it is very strong circumstantial evidence to me that the bookie is a figment of his imagination. I'll keep quiet on this point because JY has used enough rope to hang himself on this one issue alone.
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