Jason sounds like an untrustworthy character.

Chris is right, Kilowatt is right (as usual).

Okay maybe I am wrong then. I will have to rethink my position and come back later with an intelligent response instead of an emotional berating.

After all I am used to accounting transactions instead of sports betting and wagering.

My first instinct screams to me ponzi, but if you are really a lawyer and say I am wrong, maybe I am just jumping the gun in thinking it is a ponzi. But it smells heavy of ponzi, and think I am right. I will rethink my position.

It's funny how after reading 1000's of posts of utter bs on 2+2 you can instantly pick out one (like Chris' above) that is honest.

Lol April of what year?

Guys he lost this money in 2012 I'm pretty sure these conversations he had were in 2013.

I have to laugh at the bs or I'd cry

Also for what it's worth it comical that Jason thinks the number is 25k. I lost 15k and the last bet I made was on the Memphis grizzlies vs la clippers in the playoff series. I was down 7 and bet 7 on the game. Another thing that is unfactual in his story

@CM Wouldn't that make it 14 if it's down 7 and you lost another 7? Or was one of those a typo

Why don't both of you post the chatlogs of all bets made between you if it was done online to clarify dates/amounts, or if it was done over the phone I guess we're out of luck

@JY what were the exact bets that got it to 25? @CM what were the exact bets that got it to 15? As a starting point, it seems like this would be one thing to settle on, the amount allegedly lost

Chris is in the right imo. Moneymaker for local Tennessee District 17 Comptroller imo.

Chris- it's a shame that your taking it this route... Remember the sob stories at the 2012 wsop main? You were trying to find someone to get into a backing deal with you? And you were gonna take some of that $ to pay me off. Does this ring a bell? I can continue.. Please tell me I'm lying about that and maybe get your times and dates In a bit better order.

Just answer this- did u or did you not promise me to take care of this at 2012 wsop? And did you or did you not tell me you were waiting to get a staking deal and it had fallen through but you had planned on paying me off with the cash you were going to get from an investor. Please answer

I think the burden of proof is on Chris right now to prove the conversations happened in April of 2012 and not recently.

@JY do you have any of this in writing or was it all in person/over the phone? Obviously if you have anything useful in skype convos, posting it would help your case greatly - same goes for CM obv

Bottom line is you're both making a bunch of allegations and offering no proof. While it's entertaining for the rest of us, until one or both of you posts any sort of proof of what you're saying all we have is two people with relatively clean reputations alleging that the other is a scumbag with no evidence

It seems pretty childish that you two rush to NVG to try to 'tell' on the other one and Jason says he doesn't care to hear the opinions of people he doesn't know and Chris is essentially saying the decision has been made and I don't care to hear differing opinions.

Then why the **** come to a public forum?

Taking this route? Stating the truth and I told you that as I was still deliberating what Jews going to do. I was sure till sheets contacted me in Oct. That's when I knew my decision.

To other guy when you bet with book and lose you must pay juice so 7 + 7700

If Chris's timeline of events is accurate he shouldn't pay end of story.

If JY's timeline of events is accurate he should be paid end of story.

So, who is being honest and who isn't?

idk what "jews" is supposed to mean...but ill go with a typo on that one

Answer me please because this sheets stuff was a good 1 full year later.

Did you or did you not tell me in vegas you were going to pay me in full you were sorry for the delay and you were working on a staking deal that was going to get you some $ and you would be able to take care of me with that.

Just tell the truth...its rather simple

there are already people who have stated they too put there reputations on that what im saying is accurate and true.


go ahead chris, when did you lose this money? and when did you have these talks?

Jason you obviously have some points and after reading what Chris posted, he does as well.

Again just my opinion but when you are making/losing money in this kind of endeavor(sports betting, bookies, etc...)you kind of have to expect some of this crap to happen.

Maybe Chris had/has money problems, maybe he was/is looking for staking deals but from all that I have gathered he has a pretty solid reputation when it comes to sports betting and making good on debts owed.

I know it sucks but you probably should just write the debt off and move on. He says definitively he is not paying and he feels as strongly as you do in what transpired. Probably somewhere in the middle is the correct version of all this.

In the grand scheme of things(especially in the gambling environment), 15, 20, 25k is a drop in the bucket.

Good luck with your restaurant though - hope it succeeds.

basing this on no evidence and just feeling from this situation, it appears chris is being really shady here. what happens if jason pays off everyone he owes over three years? if he has a payment plan and has only paid off $500 of 8k but he is paying it off, does that change anything? So if it three years jason has paid everyone off, is it still right that chris is sitting on his money?

i have a feeling the timing of all of this won't shine well on chris but jason should PROVE that.

PSU, i'm not a big fan of your post. 'write it off' seems absurd. if they both genuinely want to do what is right, why don't they get some neutral people to arbitrate this? i'm sure they could find respectable people they both agree on and then provide whatever evidence they can while agreeing to accept whatever is decided. that seems most fair to me.

Why do people put themselves in these positions? Degens gonna degen I guess.

So this works.

Bet using credit. Lose the bet. Delay paying for several months. Hope your creditor goes broke so he can't pay his debts. Call him a freeroller. Don't pay.

Easy Game.

The only problem being is that your rep gets slung around in the mud.

Listen at me when i be telling you on the subject. Chris moneymaker is a WORLD CHAMPION! Jason Young is just a degen bookie who tried freerolling some people and lost some of his bets. So since he didnt have the money (or wasnt intending) to pay them he was exposed. If he won all of his bets then no one would have known. It's pretty clear that Chris Moneymaker wouldnt stake his reputation to welch on 15k?(25k according to JY).

Bottom line: $$Maker lost his bets to JY. $Maker intended to pay his losses. $Maker found out JY was freerolling people. $Maker Decides to not pay him because if he won his bet he 100% would not have been paid. JY has only paid sheets $500 off of a $8000 debt. You think he would have paid our world champ if he lost? No chance.

Chris, it really seems like this could be settled with a screenshot of the Skype convo. in April or having the person confirm this happened in April.

Eh, CM was betting under an agreement that called to square up every week. If at any point JY could not square up at the end of the week then the agreement was broken by JY. Doesn't matter if JY could eventually pay had he lost, he's not holding to his end of the agreement in that scenario.

I don't think JY is arguing against that, though.

He's saying he was completely solvent when Chris lost money and didn't owe the debts Chris claims until months later.

Chris is saying he discovered the debts the day he was about to square up.

One person's account of the situation is accurate and one is not.

Why doesn't JY get a list of those he owes and those who owe him together so we can see if he is in credit or not?

That's total BS, CM owe JY money. Pay the man. Stop looking for excuses. I m sure most bookies don't report taxes, does that mean every person who lost money with the bookie can use the excuse the bookies owe the government money, I m not going to pay them. That's just BS. He lost 15k to JY. Pay JY.

Irrelevant. This happened over a year ago.

Chris is saying that the day he went to pay he realized that JY was in $18k in debt to someone that was worried enough about it to be asking around.

If that's accurate then there is very good reason for CM to suspect he wasn't getting paid at settle-up day had he won.

JY is saying this isn't accurate, hence CM should pay.

The answer to this dilemma is probably found in the truthful timeline of these events.