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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2013, 07:59 AM   #1301
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by stormblower View Post
Here's another stupid question: if JY wasn't the bookie, why does he owe Sheets?
I think it has been pretty much accepted from JY's version that by the time this bet was made JY was out of the betting business and focusing on his restaurant and this was a one-off type vouch.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:19 AM   #1302
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverjc View Post
"Well, you can't prove there isn't a bookie. Jason says there is one. Therefore there is a bookie, since you can't disprove it."

Ok, flying spaghetti monster argument.
LOL at taking a shot at the Flying Spaghetti Monster like it's story is any less credible/believable than the major religions of the world. Flying spaghetti monster is questionable, but talking snakes and men coming back to life are not?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flopp_deuces View Post
jason young's cronies who are trying to come in and support him are making him look worse than he has done himself(which is hard to do). Why is this thread even still going, it's obvious Jason isn't going to show evidence of having a bookie or having money at the time the bets were placed. His attitude towards the whole thing is even worse. It is funny that 2 scumbags freerolled each other and now are both looking for ppl to side with them, it's really sad to be honest.
All of this +1. Jason's attitude is why people get the **** kicked out of them. Not gambling related (although in this case it is), but just in life in general. The apathy, narcissism and lack of intelligence is just disgusting.

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Originally Posted by stormblower View Post
Just skimmed the thread so apologies if this has already been answered but if Jason is not the bookie then why does Moneymaker owe him?
Haha good question. Shouldn't there be some bookie somewhere who wants his $15k from MM? Are we to really believe that Jason paid MM's losses to the bookie? I highly doubt a guy as unintelligent as Jason either had $15k or fronted $15k.

I think it's laughable that these two degenerates likely wouldn't agree to a live debate/discussion because they both know that their stories are bull**** and make them look bad.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #1303
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by OffSuit72 View Post
This is such a long thread I don't feel like going back and finding the quote from Sheets. Here are my thoughts for what it's worth. Moneymaker made a sports bet and lost. In my opinion he should pay regardless of JY circumstances with regards to other players. If he won he would want to be paid.

Now for the 2nd thing. Everyone is debating whether or not JY was an agent or the actual bookie. It really shouldn't matter but for those that think it does matter I have a question for you. If Jason was acting as an agent and paying the players from cash received from the actual bookie then why did he pay Sheets with LOL Lock poker transfer the first time? Did Jason pocket the cash and get a free withdrawal compliments of sheets? If this has been asked I'm sorry. Long thread and maybe missed it.
At the time, back in March/April, I was playing on lock, could use the money there, and told him that this would be ok.

Obviously now that would not be an acceptable form of payment
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:49 AM   #1304
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by sheetsworld View Post
At the time, back in March/April, I was playing on lock, could use the money there, and told him that this would be ok.

Obviously now paying with monopoly money would not be an acceptable form of payment
FYP
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #1305
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by stormblower View Post
Just skimmed the thread so apologies if this has already been answered but if Jason is not the bookie then why does Moneymaker owe him?
I think when the bookie skipped, JY decided to assume the bookie's debts (because he had vouched for him, is a good guy etc), and JY also wants to take on the bookie's assets (CM's debt).

His attempt to roll up other peoples debts in this way is part of the confusion that is this thread.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:52 AM   #1306
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

wow amazed this thread is still alive
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:19 AM   #1307
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Would anyone here out the bookies name if he is mob connected like most bookies in the northeast are? Maybe JY doesn't want his restaurant burnt down.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #1308
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Originally Posted by Edgelooker1 View Post
Would anyone here out the bookies name if he is mob connected like most bookies in the northeast are? Maybe JY doesn't want his restaurant burned down.
There was no bookie
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #1309
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
DEBT CLEARED!!!!

See what happens when we both agree on an amicable solution????

Um, on a different note - do you know any bookies that could give me a 50k credit line??? I'm expecting some money real soon so I'm good for it. Thx Snip
Yes. There is this straight up rock solid bookie who gives free credit for up to 50k. He owns a restaurant in NY. You need to order a lunch special and a Shirley Temple on Fridays to activate your account. He deals with alot of celebs and poker pros. He is honest, just ask him and he will tell you.


I think the point JY and his virulent sock puppets don't understand (or maybe they do) is that he hasn't proven his case. Yes MM was probably busto when he made the bet, would have stalled him until he raised the cash (staking/sponsorship?), and is using JYs situation to void the bet and free roll him now. Most all reasonable people agree on this. But the issue shifts to JY to prove:

1- Was there a bookie/were these bets placed
2- Was JY solvent

JY, prove those 2 points to a trusted, confidential, 3rd party and you win. You get your money and MM eats humble pie. But its obvious you won't, because you can't. You and the sock puppets can keep playing these reindeer games, but its all noise. Prove to a trusted, confidential, mutually agreed upon, 3rd party these 2 points and you win. Otherwise there is no reason for you to continue with this charade. The circumstantial evidence and the appearance of your butt sniffing shills is not helping your case. Prove those 2 points or man up and simply concede you were a free rolling, gambling, degenerate who got way in over his head. Because that is really what happened.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #1310
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Yes. There is this straight up rock solid bookie who gives free credit for up to 50k. He owns a restaurant in NY. You need to order a lunch special and a Shirley Temple on Fridays to activate your account. He deals with alot of celebs and poker pros. He is honest, just ask him and he will tell you.


I think the point JY and his virulent sock puppets don't understand (or maybe they do) is that he hasn't proven his case. Yes MM was probably busto when he made the bet, would have stalled him until he raised the cash (staking/sponsorship?), and is using JYs situation to void the bet and free roll him now. Most all reasonable people agree on this. But the issue shifts to JY to prove:

1- Was there a bookie/were these bets placed
2- Was JY solvent

JY, prove those 2 points to a trusted, confidential, 3rd party and you win. You get your money and MM eats humble pie. But its obvious you won't, because you can't. You and the sock puppets can keep playing these reindeer games, but its all noise. Prove to a trusted, confidential, mutually agreed upon, 3rd party these 2 points and you win. Otherwise there is no reason for you to continue with this charade. The circumstantial evidence and the appearance of your butt sniffing shills is not helping your case. Prove those 2 points or man up and simply concede you were a free rolling, gambling, degenerate who got way in over his head. Because that is really what happened.
So MM escapes liability for the bet even despite him being busto at the time when he made it?

Free shot at some money to get him back in the black

Lol - just look at the OP and the indisputed facts which are the texts supplied by JY NVG - it isn't that hard folks.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:00 AM   #1311
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgelooker1 View Post
Would anyone here out the bookies name if he is mob connected like most bookies in the northeast are? Maybe JY doesn't want his restaurant burnt down.
Then he should just say that
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:02 AM   #1312
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by Cardfish1 View Post
Then he should just say that
It'll become the obvious play then
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:03 AM   #1313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
As I am sitting in airport headed home I get a Skype message from another guy that used to bet in the forum. He asked if Jason owed me money and I responded that I owed him. He told me Jason has owed him 18k for a few weeks and hadn't paid and asked I pay him instead of Jason. I told him at that time I would not pay Jason and pay him. When I got home I stalled paying Jason to see how the situation would shake out. Over the next 2 months 2 other people I know messaged me asking if Jason owed me money. I gave them dame answer that I owed him. The total thathe owed the 3 guys was over 40k.

By this time jJason was telling me his boss was giving him tons of heat and I need to pay immediately or he would post on 2+2. Initially I didn't mention I knew he owed the other guys. I kept in conversation with the other guys and Jason was telling them that his boss skipped town and he couldn't pay them. At same time his "boss" is busting his chops to get my money. I finally confronted Jason about his outstanding debts and he told me his guy fleur skip town. The whole situation was shady and I talked about paying the other guys what I owed equally. After much thought and talking with many friends I determined that I was being freerolled and decided I am not paying this debt. I have been stiffed by books in the past and customers that owed the book never took care of me. However, since I am "known" the other guys kept asking me to pay them what they won from Jason.
That part I don't believe has been focused on specifically. Seems super sketchy and unethical. Makes JY look awful.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #1314
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by Mikeofreak View Post
That part I don't believe has been focused on specifically. Seems super sketchy and unethical. Makes JY look awful.
Tell me: why wouldn't he tell JY at the time in those texts that he knew JY owed money?

It 100% supports his case to not have to pay but by not doing so he is the one that is leading JY on that instead his payment is forthcoming and ultimately comes off as the one who is 'super sketchy and unethical'.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:14 AM   #1315
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by potatokmish View Post
Wow, I just spent 2 days reading this thread. Probably will be the only internet thread I remember for the rest of my life! Here are my thoughts. For the record I have never played any poker in my life outside of college games 30 years ago. I do not know any of you guys here at all except for one individual that asked me to read this thread 2 days ago. But, I have gambled on sports for 35 years so have seen/heard every degen story and witnessed freeroll attempts. I actually might have been freerolled a few years ago

In the sports gambling world there are a lot of guys that bet/accept bets first and come up with the stories second. yes, these are degenerate gamblers that will rationalize their behavior to satisfy their gambling needs.

MM made bets. I believe the right move is to pay. MM may feel differently.
To me, the bottom line is we must fully research a book BEFORE we make the decision to bet. I bet with an acquaintance's bookie, but I did not know for myself if he was solvent. I took the referral from my acquaintance at face value. My fault. I have to pay. My main guy has been booking for people I know for 35 years. His track record is impeccable. I did not need to accept this 3rd account. Once I did, I accepted the risk of being rolled.

MM accepted the risk when he accepted the relationship. It sucks big time, but the right move is to hold your head high and pay; and never play with Jason again.

Jason, you are a classic case of the guy that found himself in the situation of robbing Peter to pay Paul. You might not formulate ill intent. You might be a nice guy, but the bottom line is you can not have a sheet with players and just "hope" that the credits outweigh the debits. It does not work that way all of the time. Winners need to be paid and losers do not always pay on time. Insolvency and bookmaking are not a happily married couple. Good luck with your restaurant. Work hard. Do not place assets at risk you can not afford to lose. Especially your family and your business. They are your greatest assets outside of your health.

Despite Druff's et al views on freerolling somehow being a nullifier, tainter, voider of MM's action, this post best exemplifies my concept of what accepted gambling behavior was supposed to be. And while their arguements have validity, I think the philosophy expressed in this excellent post represents the accepted behavior in the world that MM and JY have placed themselves in, and makes the Druff/free roller arguements less valid.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:17 AM   #1316
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
So MM escapes liability for the bet even despite him being busto at the time when he made it?
Yes, because the circumstantial evidence indicates JY was busto as well. Bet is void. JY is the one seeking payment, so if he can prove the 2 points mentioned I and many others will change their opinion. I think if this can be proven even MM has conceded he will pay up. So get JY to do it and this matter for him, sheets, MM, et al will be settled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Free shot at some money to get him back in the black
Exactly. And it is the same shot JY took with him. And it is the same shot JY took in October when he took on sheets action again. Thats what degens like MM and JY do. You see I am not siding with either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Lol - just look at the OP and the indisputed facts which are the texts supplied by JY NVG - it isn't that hard folks.
Yep. He bet with money he did not have. JY did the same thing.

If you really want to do something positive, have JY prove that there was a bookie and that JY was solvent to a confidential, mutually trusted, 3rd party and JY gets his money. If not, you, JY, and his few supporters need to just stop. The circular arguments are looking foolish and are not convincing anyone. The chances of him getting his money have gone out the window.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:33 AM   #1317
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Yes, because the circumstantial evidence indicates JY was busto as well. Bet is void. JY is the one seeking payment, so if he can prove the 2 points mentioned I and many others will change their opinion. I think if this can be proven even MM has conceded he will pay up. So get JY to do it and this matter for him, sheets, MM, et al will be settled.
What circumstantial evidence?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Exactly. And it is the same shot JY took with him. And it is the same shot JY took in October when he took on sheets action again. Thats what degens like MM and JY do. You see I am not siding with either.
That is fantastic that you are so impartial.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
If you really want to do something positive, have JY prove that there was a bookie and that JY was solvent to a confidential, mutually trusted, 3rd party and JY gets his money. If not, you, JY, and his few supporters need to just stop. The circular arguments are looking foolish and are not convincing anyone. The chances of him getting his money have gone out the window.
Again - and I shouldn't have to repeat myself - the whereabouts or the naming of the bookie doesn't matter.

MM has not challenged that JY has the rights to collect this money and again going back to the actual timeline of events - MM won the $5k bet, he chose to let it ride which meant that he had confidence in the bookie or JY being able to pay if he had a further win and as we know he lost that bet - confessed to owing the money to JY in subsequent texts but as we now know in this thread has come up with some excuses as to why he shouldn't pay which appear to be fabricated as it isn't backed up by the evidence.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:34 AM   #1318
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by FUrake View Post
wow amazed this thread is still alive
People keep saying that, but I don't see why. This thread is full of entertainment, narcissism, degeneracy. Reading it makes me feel great about myself.

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Old 11-02-2013, 11:48 AM   #1319
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

If only Phil Ivey and Crockfords Casino would start their own 2+2 thread.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #1320
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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If only Phil Ivey and Crockfords Casino would start their own 2+2 thread.
I can see PH supporting MM - but PH supports anyone with a bracelet
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #1321
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Bundy I have admitted mistakes and I will pay for those mistakes in rep and also by giving the money I lost to charity. Why are you still here fighting? Are you Jason's friend, he owe you money or jason himself. Don't understand why you want him paid so bad when I know I was freerolled.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #1322
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Bundy I have admitted mistakes and I will pay for those mistakes in rep and also by giving the money I lost to charity. Why are you still here fighting? Are you Jason's friend, he owe you money or jason himself. Don't understand why you want him paid so bad when I know I was freerolled.
You weren't being freerolled. Your posts and his texts don't back this up. I do however support you paying Assani and sheets first and I would like the balance to go to JY.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #1323
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

True, I kinda wanna just see a debate between JY and MM without any other posters in the middle of it. That would be entertainment at its finest.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #1324
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Why should assani and sheets be paid before ak87 or others jason owe
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:57 AM   #1325
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Why should assani and sheets be paid before ak87 or others jason owe
Prove to me that JY owes ak87 or others anything? Where have they said this? If ever there was an opportunity to be heard as to money that JY purportedly owes them it is ITT.
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