moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1611) - Page 58 - Poker News

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moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1611)

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Chris Moneymaker

62 82.67%

Jason Young

13 17.33%

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11-03-2013 , 02:17 AM

#1426

chinamaniac

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameoverjc

which is the most hilarious part that a lot of people are missing.

If Jason was not the bookie, the small % as an agent he hopes to collect for the bookie isn't worth the hassle. This isn't his problem, it's the bookies.

Jason said he COVERED Chris' bet in full beforehand thinking Chris was good for it. THIS IS WHY he is collecting. If Jason can prove he covered, that should be sufficient enough.

Also, how could he have possibly covered the bet when he already owed a bunch of people $$$

11-03-2013 , 03:53 AM

#1427

gameoverjc

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,761

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinamaniac

Also, how could he have possibly covered the bet when he already owed a bunch of people $$$

exactly.

Look at Jason's post, he clearly states he paid Chris' bet. Yet he owed ak87 and assani amounts before/around the time of Chris' bet which were not paid out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xalas

So Jason paid the bookie Chris' bet, Chris lost and Jason is holding the bag hoping Chris pays him, does that mean if Chris had won Jason was going to pay Chris and also be out the money the bookie kept (double the money) or is he saying that if and ONLY if Chris had won then his bookie would had given back to Jason the money for Chris' bet that he covered? and he is being loyal to this crook, that left him holding the bag to collect Chris' lost and paying Chris his own money + he would be out the money he gave to the book? do I have that right?

Yes. This is the only story that makes sense for an agent to want to collect and pay others to do right by them. For someone who has been scammed multiple times previously (which he enumerates in his post), this is outright stupid to spot someone 15k+ for a bet to a bookie.

Jason is either borderline ******ed and should not be allowed near serving food to people, or is lying.

11-03-2013 , 04:19 AM

#1428

KoreanBrad

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 80

pokerstars obv made chris pay LOL

11-03-2013 , 04:33 AM

#1429

Edgelooker1

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 650

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameoverjc

exactly.

Look at Jason's post, he clearly states he paid Chris' bet. Yet he owed ak87 and assani amounts before/around the time of Chris' bet which were not paid out.

Yes. This is the only story that makes sense for an agent to want to collect and pay others to do right by them. For someone who has been scammed multiple times previously (which he enumerates in his post), this is outright stupid to spot someone 15k+ for a bet to a bookie.

Jason is either borderline ******ed and should not be allowed near serving food to people, or is lying.

Chris' biggest bet was $7700. Not sure if you know how online credit shops work, but he had a credit line of 15K on there. (spotting bets is what agents actually do at the credit shops) Agents are responsible to the bookie.

Last edited by Edgelooker1; 11-03-2013 at 04:43 AM.

11-03-2013 , 05:23 AM

#1430

mullion

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 556

Sheets said earlier he logged in to a website to place his bets, I would like to know if that website is still operational and can you still log in?

Also to Chris did you place bets via the website or direct with Jason?

11-03-2013 , 05:43 AM

#1431

MakeBelieve

adept

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,021

Found the book

Spoiler:

11-03-2013 , 05:49 AM

#1432

gameoverjc

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,761

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgelooker1

First off, Chris' biggest bet was 7.7k but it totaled to over 14k (according to Chris) or over 20k (according to Jason).

Secondly, perhaps you haven't followed this LOL of a thread from its inception, but it wasn't the credit line - Jason said he actually covered the loss (which means paid for it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Young

Your 2003 WSOP MAIN EVENT CHAMPION CHRIS MONEYMAKER DOES NOT PAY HIS DEBTS

I had something I was going to post over the summer; that I held onto because I still had hopes Chris would do the right thing…

I tried to avoid this for a long time, way too much time has gone by and its just not right..I havent even logged into 2+2 since the outage whenever that was, and I’ve had quite a hectic last year having nothing to do with poker at all.
I'm going to make a real real long story very short.
Bottom line- I was a high stakes reg for 5+ years on the live circuit.
I was also a high stakes reg in the HSNL forum and HS sports discussion thread etc.
Over the course of I guess 18 months I was scammed out of over 50k by the likes of CLHOUSE8,whatup,ezdonk, a slew of others I dont even really remember, and the icing on the cake was LIMPCALLCALLFOLD. I was scammed out of roughly 20k by him, but freerolled for far worse---somewhere in the 100's of thousands on the ncaa tournament last year alone.
Ive paid out 100's of thousands if not more in pieces, bought and sold, pools, swaps, online $, and sports win's and losses. I have an immaculate record, and I'm sure I could have an endless line of people come in here and vouch, confirm--whatever. Which I will have starting shortly…
After the sports thread went down a bunch of high stakes guys kept swapping action online, on skype through text on different sites etc.
Moneymaker aka Dunlap lost over 20k NOT directly to me and bought online monies from me equaling a total of just under 25k owed to me.
This was pre wsop 2012- I covered his losses for him and at the time didn’t need the $ right away. I also assumed he was good for it.
A couple months went by and he had paid nothing stating whatever excuses that he couldn’t pay, and said we could most likely square up at the wsop. I opened a business last year that i put basically all of my liquidity into. I only went to Vegas for the Main Event. I spoke to Chris and he still put it off.
Fast Forward to a situation where a few people that I had dealt with in the past won $ NOT from me but from someone I vouched for. I got screwed once again- and am pretty much completely over dealing with all of this ****. I’m done with that whole world, im focused on my business and my family. I told Chris I needed my money this was in the ballpark of 1 full year after he owed me this $. Told him that it wasn’t even for me, it was for other people that were owed this money. He confirmed to these people that he owed me this money, yet still to this day has refused to pay it.
All in all I’ve been scammed for close to 6 figures, I've always gone into my pocket to make things right, ALWAYS. Quite frankly I’m tired of it, and I’m tired of people getting away with this.
Like I previously stated all of my liquidity is in my business so at this point in time, even if i wanted to just pay out of my pocket like I always have in the past I can't.

I’ve made arrangements with the people that are owed, been in constant contact with them the entire time, inviting them to come speak to me personally in NY. I value my name in this world, and have always done the right thing. Some people have been paid off in full, some have arranged payment plans etc, which none of which would be necessary if Chris paid his debt, then all of this would be behind us.

I don’t rat people out, I don’t throw people under the bus, If I vouch for something and it doesn’t work out, I will do everything in my power to make it right.

After re-reading some of my own post- I can pretty much guarantee over 7 figures in the past 5 years of transfers,pieces bought and sold, pools,online $. He lost this money at least 6 months prior to these guys winning so his story is full of holes, and more lies. I told him many times I was more than willing to work out a payment plan with him.

Lastly anyone that was in contact with him can confirm they never once believed they were getting scammed and had all been paid in the past.

He was never for one second being freerolled- I can march 100s of people in here to attest for that…your move Chris. Just do the right thing and put all of this in the past.

That is not at all common in my experience.

11-03-2013 , 06:12 AM

#1433

SleightOfJam

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,375

What a cluster****. Can someone link/cliff the part about trying to shakedown stars?

11-03-2013 , 06:16 AM

#1434

stormblower

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy5

I think it has been pretty much accepted from JY's version that by the time this bet was made JY was out of the betting business and focusing on his restaurant and this was a one-off type vouch.

I still don't get why he owed Sheets the money unless he was the bookie?

And if it was a one-off vouch, why does he also owe AK87?

11-03-2013 , 06:16 AM

#1435

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunlap

I appreciate all you guys have opinions and want the whole story and want to debate about it. I was personally involved obv and know what happened. I could of easily paid jason and been done instead of taking this line. I am paying the money out to a charity as I think that is best course because I was wrong during this time as well and need to pay up.

If jason can somehow prove to ME not you guys he had cash in May (my timeline was wrong as I made the bets in may not April) or somehow prove the bookie is real as he told me they were in business for 5 years at one point or show me the computer betting sheets of the people I pmed him about I will do what I said 2000 posts ago. I will pay him and apologize. I have requested this and got no answer just a phone call with promises and assurances.

As for the text messages he posted they don't bother me that they public. I am a big boy in more ways than one and I am also human and I overextended myself for awhile with loans. I have tried to learned that lesson and don't loan or borrow anymore with anyone. But that's my issue

Do we get to see a receipt for this charity payment if you do indeed choose this route?

11-03-2013 , 06:23 AM

#1436

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunlap

During that time I only knew of one balance jason owed and he assured me he was on top of it and paying him his balance. I don't like owing anyone money and felt like **** with my given situation. I was promised from 4 people I would have my loans repaid during that period. It was a lot of money and between that and series run bad I was gambling broke. Again I am human and make mistakes as I did in this situation that's why I am paying to make right

Well if JY can agree to the charity payment, I would hurry up and pay that money as yet again you have contradicted your OP. One balance owed you now knew of at the time?

Yet in your OP it says that you had knowledge of three during about the months of May-July 2012

11-03-2013 , 06:40 AM

#1437

PraguePoker

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assani Fisher

we've set up a payment plan that is satisfactory to me. I won't be getting my money that quickly...

Wow. Does the payment plan involve free drinks at a slightly upscale east coast restaurant? ;-) It's pretty amazing that you need a payment plan, apparently stretched over many months, for a paltry 2k USD.

This thread should be required reading in school. Or anyone set on the baller Vegas lifestyle of HSP.

The first step in recovery is self awareness. To Jason's credit (disclosure: I don't know him at all, obviously), he seems to be on the right track. He's gotten out and is trying to build something of value. At least I hope he's not going anywhere near a poker room or a bookie.

CM, on the other hand, is still chasing that elusive dream. His heart is in the right place, but his head? I'll give the last word to Fitzgerald:

It eluded us then, but that's no matter—tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. . . . And then one fine morning—

So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

Good luck everyone.

--PP

11-03-2013 , 06:46 AM

#1438

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleightOfJam

What a cluster****. Can someone link/cliff the part about trying to shakedown stars?

I admit that it is pretty bad form from JY if he did actually do it; although I'm not putting it past MM to have made it up given how questionable his story to date is.

Accepting it's true, I suppose it shows me just how broke JY thought MM was to have to go do it.

11-03-2013 , 06:51 AM

#1439

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormblower

I still don't get why he owed Sheets the money unless he was the bookie?

And if it was a one-off vouch, why does he also owe AK87?

Your second question puts you on the right track to answer your first question but as for the second question itself while I have been keeping close tabs on this thread throughout its entire existence, knowledge of JY's supposed debt to AK87 eludes me.

Anyone got a post reference? - so I can post something positive on JY's behalf

11-03-2013 , 06:54 AM

#1440

SleightOfJam

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,375

Yea but did he just email stars support in a fit of rage? Can't imagine trying to blackmail them and being successful. Again assuming it's true, don't care for these things either way just find it kind of funny.

11-03-2013 , 06:59 AM

#1441

MakeBelieve

adept

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,021

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Young

I don’t rat people out, I don’t throw people under the bus

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy5

its terribad and the dude is a scumbag who flat out lies about how he conducts buisness.

11-03-2013 , 07:14 AM

#1442

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleightOfJam

Well that's it - poor form but at the end of the day MM has been giving him the go around for 18 months now and I would be pretty pissed too - if he did after having one or two too many write that email to stars again not advisable but it isn't as if he hasn't been provoked.

11-03-2013 , 07:17 AM

#1443

MakeBelieve

adept

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,021

lol Ted, you must be his mother.

11-03-2013 , 07:18 AM

#1444

stormblower

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy5

Anyone got a post reference? - so I can post something positive on JY's behalf

Sorry, it just seems you're being deliberately obtuse. If you know the answer to the first question why don't you just answer it?

It seems you're basically saying JY was an agent for the bookie and now the bookie has disappeared he's paying off the bookie's debts for him. Why on earth would he do that?

Here's where AK87 says JY owes him : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=297

And here's where he says it was October 2012: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=339

11-03-2013 , 07:18 AM

#1445

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Also reminds me of the constant knock backs that Judge Judy gives to harassment counter claims by defendants that are alleged to owe money to the plaintiffs that they claim the plaintiffs have been going to their places where they work and telling their bosses/co-workers that they are owed money by the defendant - well guess what as JJ says, it's not harassment as it's true. Pay the ****ing bill and you won't have them visiting your workplaces!!

11-03-2013 , 07:27 AM

#1446

Sn1per

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assani Fisher

we've set up a payment plan that is satisfactory to me...

No!!! Don't pay Assani until he gives the result of that 54 suited hand!

11-03-2013 , 08:46 AM

#1447

bundy5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormblower

He fronted MM's bet to the bookie and bookie goes MIA, has to collect now

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormblower

Here's where AK87 says JY owes him : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=297

And here's where he says it was October 2012: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=339

Thanks for that.

As I said about Sheets' bet in October and as I will say about this one, it is irrelevant in terms of liability in that MM still owes the money but relevant in a sense that the money recovered by JY from MM should go to sheets, assani and AK87.

It's irrelevant because it occurred 6 months after JY took MM's action and MM losing and in between MM has confessed to owing the money and only, what it appears to be at the very least sometime post September 2012 given that is the last known piece of indisputable evidence IIT being those texts, has made up this story about having knowledge of 3 people who claim JY owes them money in the couple of months subsequent to him losing his second bet.

11-03-2013 , 09:16 AM

#1448

stormblower

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy5

He fronted MM's bet to the bookie and bookie goes MIA, has to collect now

I get that part. I don't understand why he's taking on the bookie's debts and making payouts.

11-03-2013 , 09:39 AM

#1449

vazdog33

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 522

What is so unbelievably disgusting about JY contacting PS is JY himself owes out quite a few bucks himself....and was in no position to pay had MM won.

So when Mr. Legitimate Bookie starts trying to collect by harassing/contacting employers, that's one thing. It's pretty clear JY is no Legitimate Bookie (oh wait, he was just the agent that got screwed lol)

Contacting PS was just deplorable (if true). JY = lower than a low life.