CM gains some respect JY confirmed freerolling people /thread

Relax sniper. This isn't the military, we aren't samurais.

I don't get how sheets is catching flak here. Seems he's been 100% open about everything itt.

Then you are not flirting with the scumbag line, and I apologize.

But the point you made on the phone is valid. CM can't simply pay you three players. Because if you three owe other people money, then CM should pay them instead. And so on and so on. Its simply a never ending line of degens looking for $. And who knows, maybe in that group of degens, is someone who owes Moneymaker. In that case, he should keep the money. **** JY and keep the money or give it to Gamblers Anonymous. It would be better spent there anyway.

Thanks for the advice. now you can go back to critiquing analogies.

Sheets comes off just fine in this thread. He posted what he knew. Nothing more. He even said before posting that he could be biased since he was owed money. JY comes off real bad. If you cant pay someone 2k- how would you ever pay Chris if he ran it up?

You couldnt.

Its all good. Everyone needs to take some flak from time to time.
I try to be as honest and objective as possible but in a situation like this it just is going to come off bad.

I can take the flak its fine

What if I promised that if I were paid 8000, then 5000 would be donated to GA, and 3000 would be $ added in a special tournament held just for people who posted in this thread?

Or maybe use that $3000 and host a party in NYC?

One time?

Anwyay....I missed this place. Hope I didn't do more damage than I helped.

I'd say I'm glad I've posted in this thread, and I imagine your objections will be few.

I for one am easily bought.

What if MM just donates your 8k to GA or chosen charity?

Posting ITT for special tournament entry.

Cliffs:
Chris didnt want to get extorted and thought JY was wrong
JY was wrong and Chris was successfully extorted

Or better yet, MM sticks the 8K on a game this weekend. Split the winnings. I know a good bookie if interested?

SHEETS CONFIRMED MULTIACCOUNTING 2P2!!!

This whole mess could've been avoided if Jason had just asked the 2+2 community to donate to the opening of his restaurant like Cyndy Violette.

I'm clearly just as biased as Sheets in this situation but skimming the thread, it is pretty comical to read some of the responses. It's no surprise people like putting down others and stirring up gossip for no other benefit than their own. It's NVG, I get it.

I'm not entirely sure on the details of the Assani situation, but I would venture to say that the majority of poker pros could be ruled insolvent if this situation were the precedent.

I mainly came here to say similar things Sheets has said about JY during the situation. He easily could have told us to f off and that would be that. I would have made a thread or at least a post in the relevant forum/thread letting people know of the situation. Is that his motivation for staying in contact and wanting to make this right? Possibly. But I can tell you that he has been in contact throughout the whole ordeal fully knowing his financial situation, even before I entertained that thought.

It is a frustrating situation for all parties, no one is arguing against that. However, I am relatively sure that JY shouldn't be crucified because his wings appetizer comes with 8 wings instead of the standard 10.

This still doesn't prove Jason was insolvent at the time of the bet. Looks like Assani didn't really make much of effort to collect until early 2013. Jason also didn't make much of an effort to pay this bet. The only thing this proves is that both are pretty lazy.

Either way, if Chris' action was being booked by a third party Jason's financial situation is irrelevant.

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Even if Jason was 100% broke in April and Assani knew this, it wouldn't have been known to Chris and therefore wouldn't have had a reason not to pay. According to Chris he was tipped of back in April 2012 yet he hasn't proven any of this. How difficult is it to bring in 1 of 3 people?

If that 18k guy cam in then yeah, Jason would look like a complete scumbag.

why would he tell you guys to f off? that makes him instant scumbag.

way better to say "Moneymaker owes me 25k that I'm working on getting..." Holds you guys off for a yr or 2. He looks like he is trying to do the right thing. Another freeroll for him.

I largely agree with this. If you don't do due diligence beforehand, the burden of proof is HEAVILY on you to prove your entire bet was intended as nothing but fraud. This hasn't been established in any way.


Incidentally, Chris's comment that he paid back 2K in money he didn't owe (huh??) strains his credibly even further.

So he is wiling to pay 2K he is sure he doesn't owe, but balks at baying a larger amount he thinks he might be able to get out of based on estimating the other party's liquidity (a dubious proposition at best).

Finally.. delaying the payment 'to investigate' doesn't pass the smell test. Many parties mentioned escrowing the payment, or at least a token amount as reasonable standard in this kind of situation. In addition to the obvious conflict of interest the effect of refusing payment can spiral into a direct attack on said party's credibility when the middleman is caught in a cash crunch.

As a metaphor, its like a bank refusing to honor a home loan, and pointing to the subsequent foreclosure as proof that the owner would have been at fault.

This is not a debate Chris is likely to win in an open forum, and I suggest he settles.

yes. Unless he specifically asks me to keep certain info private(a request that I will grant if I think its reasonable) then I will post updates when they become available.


post #543 should explain everything fairly clearly


I did not include 2p2 PMs.

On 4/26/12 I sent this PM on 2p2:


Then on 12/23/12:


I also believe that I tried to email him(through 2p2- theres an option for that), but there is no record of that. Its also possible that I sent more 2p2 PMs, as my mailbox is always in the upper 90% so I have to clean it out every now and then.

So, MM was supposed to ask for and receive full financials on both Jason and the now apparently imaginary bookie before placing bets?

FWIW, I don't think that MM needs to prove that if he had won the bet that Jason intended to defraud him. All he needs to prove is that Jason did not have enough cash on hand to pay of his bet had he won--and I think that the evidence in this thread proves this pretty convincingly.

I don't know whether Jason is a scam-artist or not (even though his apparent lie about the "bookie" undermines his credibility)...maybe he's just another lying degen who uses magical thinking to cover potential bad outcomes instead of solid money management.

Anyone find it ironic that Jason Young asked Assani to escrow or be vouched for in order to bet with him and Jason Young ends up not being credible and doesnt pay.

I think it speaks volumes that JY disappeared from thread. If he were innocent he'd be in here defending himself.

Why? He has zero incentive to make any additional posts once the deal is made.

The two main issues that led me to believe CM was more in the wrong than Jason were:

1. Postponing payment indefinitely without escrow -a few weeks to check that you aren't getting scammed is reasonable.

2. Confronting Jason's associates and prying into his debts instead of (or at least before) confronting him about additionally booki information/solvency.


To a certain extent, Like I said in my earlier post, its like a bank refusing to honor a home loan, and pointing to the subsequent foreclosure as proof that the owner would have been at fault.

So even though Jason's evidence that he both intended to and was capable of honoring the bet appear tenous, Chris's actions seemed to suggest he was acting with less than good faith in the immediate aftermath.

It is entirely possible that Jason came out of this better than he deserved, but it is difficult case for Chris to establish this late, and given his reactions to the payment he was asked for.

I think this is a very principled way to end this and I commend MM for trying to end this with good faith.

this isn't remotely the same thing. in this scenario you borrowed money from visa, they did not free roll you, if they owe 1000 companies money they refuse to pay back it's irrelevant. either way you got what you borrowed and now you owe.



in the chris jason scenario chris made a bet he couldn't have collected had it won,he was free rolled and shouldnt owe jack****.

even if jason was honest in the past it's beyond obvious he got in way over his head and can't even pay off 1k bets. it doesnt seem like he set out to rip people off, but he lost more than he could pay so he was hoping he would get out of the hole by having people lose bigger bets to him.

2 years or whatever later and he stll has excuses for not paying assani 2k. 2p2 got shut down so ****ing what. if you really intend to pay someone back you don't ignore their emails and you try and contact them.it wouldnt have been too difficult for him to make a new 2p2 account,message asani and say it's jason I have that 2k i owe you.

this

and this.

(posting to get in on the freeroll tourney obv!)