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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2013, 12:06 PM   #726
PSUMike1999
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B_O_K_E View Post
Its incredible that people just expose info over the web like this, especially info that is illegal from both sides.
Unbelievable thread in so many ways.
Nobody is going to jail over this bro - relax
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:08 PM   #727
at051182
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

[QUOTE=PSUMike1999;

Chances are good that if Chris had won the text messages would just be reversed - with Jason stating that he can't pay right now because "his bookie went busto" or "the money is tied up in the restaurant", etc... and Chris asking for a payment plan.[/QUOTE]


agree 1000%. Because of the other unpaid debts, J.Y. has to be able to show in some capacity that he could have paid had the bets gone the other way. All of the texts are just noise, albeit reputation damaging noise.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:16 PM   #728
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by at051182 View Post
Wow you both look so terrible in this. i guess Jason must figured any chance of payment is out the window since he napalmed Chris by publicizing his personal woes.
That ship already sailed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all.
The texts were the "axe in car" response.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:17 PM   #729
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
Jason should have posted these texts MUCH MUCH EARLIER - he hardy posted on here and didn't respond to the majority of questions.

Does this change things now???? Meh, maybe a little in the sense that Chris showed he is as good as anyone in coming up with reasons why they can't pay a debt.

Agree though that although this probably will tarnish MM's reputation to a degree, if he was being freerolled in the 1st place all the rest is a moot point. The Assani posts were the clincher imo which showed that Jason is taking bets and couldn't even pay out 2k. We are really supposed to believe that Jason would have paid Chris 20k????

Chances are good that if Chris had won the text messages would just be reversed - with Jason stating that he can't pay right now because "his bookie went busto" or "the money is tied up in the restaurant", etc... and Chris asking for a payment plan.

I miss the days of being able to browse 2+2 and instantly answer anything anytime...im being serious im not being douchey...I have no time- my life has changed drastically and I haven't really had the appropriate time to devote to this albeit ive tried my best...and ive been in constant contact with all parties involved so I didn't rush on here...

but as far as me and my $ situation at the time- I offered to pay chris 5k after he won the first week----HE TOLD ME TO ROLL IT OVER BECAUSE HE WAS OUT OF TOWN.

its in his very first post of the thread...for people that don't know what that means- I wanted to pay him 5k he told me don't worry about it roll it over---he then lost the very next week.

I keep trying to give you guys what your looking for- he won 5k I tried to pay he told me not too...then he lost and owed me, and never paid.

I based a lot of things off of my rep- I often carried figures and I was financially okay myself so it wasn't a big deal- I dealt with many people that if I owed $ would carry it also because there was a mutual trust.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #730
Jason Young
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
First off I am Chris and I got messages from Jason that he was going to post our issue on 2+2 last night and he tweeted about it last night as well. He has threaten to post on here for over a year and I told him that he should feel free to do so. After seeing his tweet I have a feeling he will not list out all the facts correctly so I am here to do so.

It all started in the here on the forums as a group of guys were betting on sports with each other vig free. We bet every week for almost A year and would aalways settle on Monday. You can ask anyone in the group I always paid on time and was a trusted member of the group. About 2 years ago a guy by the name lccf joined somehow and ended up scamming everyone out of a ton of money myself included. At the end of it I had to pay an additional 9k to the people in the forum from this guy as I got trapped but that's another story.

During the scandal Jason sent me a pm saying he worked for a guy that ran a book and offered to set me up. I agreed since the thread was dead and began betting with him. The first week I made about 5k but was out of town and told him to roll it over. The next week and a half went south for me and I lost back my 5 plus my credit limit of 15k. (He stated in his tweet that I owed 25 which is inaccurate)
I told him I was on the road and would take care of it when I got home. No problem he said. As I am sitting in airport headed home I get a Skype message from another guy that used to bet in the forum. He asked if Jason owed me money and I responded that I owed him. He told me Jason has owed him 18k for a few weeks and hadn't paid and asked I pay him instead of Jason. I told him at that time I would not pay Jason and pay him. When I got home I stalled paying Jason to see how the situation would shake out. Over the next 2 months 2 other people I know messaged me asking if Jason owed me money. I gave them dame answer that I owed him. The total thathe owed the 3 guys was over 40k.

By this time jJason was telling me his boss was giving him tons of heat and I need to pay immediately or he would post on 2+2. Initially I didn't mention I knew he owed the other guys. I kept in conversation with the other guys and Jason was telling them that his boss skipped town and he couldn't pay them. At same time his "boss" is busting his chops to get my money. I finally confronted Jason about his outstanding debts and he told me his guy fleur skip town. The whole situation was shady and I talked about paying the other guys what I owed equally. After much thought and talking with many friends I determined that I was being freerolled and decided I am not paying this debt. I have been stiffed by books in the past and customers that owed the book never took care of me. However, since I am "known" the other guys kept asking me to pay them what they won from Jason.

Ultimately I decided I was getting freerolled/scammed again and I will not pay this debt. Jason can post or whatever but the fact of the matter is he was lying to me and others and therefore will not receive anything from me

Chris moneymaker

Mod edit: Jason's response: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...5&postcount=42
see bolded and response above to psumike
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #731
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

The above proves that I was solvent at the time Chris lost the money and he would have been paid if he won.....he won 5k. I tried to pay it and he told me not to.... Hence I couldn't have been freerolling. And he in fact was unquestionably the freeroller....
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:26 PM   #732
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Jason I am swaying to your side on this. Mm owned up to owing you the money on several occasions in those texts, and I've always known you to be trustworthy.

Also I learned the bets were placed online and not directly through you.

Mm was not liquid and was betting money he couldnt pay if he lost.

You both made mistakes but now based on all the information I've seen I feel mm should pay the funds to a third party who distribute s it to those owed.

Thanks for posting your explanation and the texts.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:40 PM   #733
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

49 pages later we have the final conclusion. MM was freerolling JY, while JY was freerolling MM. Good luck resolving this now.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:42 PM   #734
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revs View Post
49 pages later we have the final conclusion. MM was freerolling JY, while JY was freerolling MM.
lol.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:47 PM   #735
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Im really happy Jason finally came in here and was able to set the record straight because it really is soooo clear that the freerolling here was on MM's end and not JYs. The bashing JY has gotten is incredibly unfair. For all you 2+2 detectives who were so sure JY was in the wrong lets take a look at the evidence now.

Chris won .....JY tried to pay.....Chris asked not to be paid yet........Chris immediately loses everything he is up plus more......Chris instantly says HE has no $$ to pay ....now explain to me how this doesnt prove that JY has money and Chris didnt.....Explain to me how this would lead anyone to believe JY was the freeroller here?

We have Chris's initial post ........that comes from Chris as evidence of the financial timeline.....we now have massive amounts of texts that backup the fact that chris never had the money to pay jason....so again ...who is the freeroller?

for those that asked for the name of the actual person who was taking the bets.....get real....a)nobody would ever give that info b)it wouldnt serve any purpose anyways

i understand many of you look up to chris because he was a hero in the poker community for many yrs.....and i can tell you from personal experiance that he is a nice guy.....and most of you have never met jason so its easy to want to take chris' side however, lets also be fair....Chris admitted on national television that before he won the main event he got into trouble gambling with money he didnt have and ducked the people he owed....well if he did it once before......and the texts make it clear he was in bad shape now....why is it so hard to think he would do it again?

jason vouched for someone....and he has been a man about it by taking responsibility and doing his best to pay everyone back....those he owed have said he has paid some and has always been in contact.....i want to know how many other people would take responsibility in his same situation....yes it was the right thing to do....but as we all know....not everyone always does the right thing....and JY has shown his willingness to do so.. HAS CHRIS?

sorry this had to be so long but it really bothered me watching the wrong person being slandered here for the past week.....jason def isnt totally blameless and he acknowledges this....but anyone with half a brain should now be able to see quite clearly where the truth lies here.....and its with the guy busting his a$$ working a real job supporting a family and trying to do right by everyone to the best of his ability

thanks for reading
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:52 PM   #736
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I mean that changes things alot if moneymaker won 5k and jason tried to pay him which gets rid of the idea Jason was trying to freeroll. Moneymaker was making bets that he didn't have liquid money to pay had he lost. I think everybody needs to get paid in full. Jason should make a complete list and amounts of the people that he owes and moneymakers debt should be split an equal % among those ppl. And then Jason should pay off the balance to those other ppl asap even if he has to borrow from friends or family to get them paid
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:57 PM   #737
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Its interesting how folks interpret differently the same text.

Quote:
The first week I made about 5k but was out of town and told him to roll it over. The next week and a half went south for me and I lost back my 5 plus my credit limit of 15k.

What I see in the OP is CM telling Jason to roll over the win into new action. I don't see Jason trying or offering to pay the $5K.

& LOL Chainsaw and another one of his many 2+2 backtracks.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:01 PM   #738
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I do agree these newly released texts by Jason definitely open up some eyes about MM's intent but tbh I think that although Jason "offered" to pay Chris the 5k and Chris declined, we will never know if Chris had accepted - would Jason start making excuses himself about how HE COULDN'T PAY???

All in all, I think both people are at fault and like an earlier poster so eloquently stated: they both were most likely "freerolling each other".

Last edited by PSUMike1999; 10-31-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:01 PM   #739
dareyou2call
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
Its interesting how folks interpret differently the same text.


What I see in the OP is CM telling Jason to roll over the win into new action. I don't see Jason trying or offering to pay the $5K.


its interesting to me how people will do anything to side with chris......CHRIS ADMITS VIA TEXT CONVO....that he never had the money....

and someone only rolls over a balance that was trying to be paid....if jason wasnt trying to pay him then he wouldnt have had to ask it to be rolled over.

stop grasping at straws people......if the shoe was on the other foot here nobody would be making a case for jason
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:11 PM   #740
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
I

for some reason parts of this highlighted post that are being represented as mine are not ........ i never stated that this was a mutual freeroll...please refer back to my initial post for accuracy
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:11 PM   #741
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
its interesting to me how people will do anything to side with chris.....
For balance, are you a close friend of Jason's?
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:14 PM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
for some reason parts of this highlighted post that are being represented as mine are not ........ i never stated that this was a mutual freeroll...please refer back to my initial post for accuracy
Yeah my bad on that - I was replying to your post and it got put in the middle of your response by mistake. I just fixed it.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:15 PM   #743
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

How did CM end up owing 20k when his credit limit was only 15k?
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:15 PM   #744
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
The above proves that I was solvent at the time Chris lost the money and he would have been paid if he won.....he won 5k. I tried to pay it and he told me not to.... Hence I couldn't have been freerolling. And he in fact was unquestionably the freeroller....

i have bet with both of u in the old vigfree thread, pretty ****ty u guys have got to this point


there r 2 things i would question/like to point out

as far as the above quote, is there any kind of texts or anything that actually show u trying to pay him the first 5k?? here is how mm worded it

"The first week I made about 5k but was out of town and told him to roll it over. The next week and a half went south for me and I lost back my 5 plus my credit limit of 15k"


the way he worded it leaves it pretty openended, it reads like he may have just hit u up and been like yo im out of town just roll that 5k over as opposed to u hitting him up and being like yo i got ur 5k wat u want me to do with it. i think if u have a msge of any kind showing u trying to pay him the 5k that would be crucial in proving ur case


my other question would b regarding sheets or maybe i misread the timeline. why was the book opend up for sheets in oct/nov when the bookie had already ran off and pple were owed? again i havent dissected every post in this thread so i may have the timeline off


gl getn it resolved guys
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:21 PM   #745
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
For balance, are you a close friend of Jason's?
yes....i stated in a post early in this thread that i am in fact a good friend of jys and i also know MM.....and while you may think that my being a close friend of JYs may hurt my credibility it really should be the opposite...i have firsthand knowledge of this entire situation from the beginning and i know what is and isnt true.....like i said early on....im positive JY was never freerolling here and my reputation is pretty solid in the poker community... i wouldnt blindly support JY just because he was my friend.....but yes he is a good friend.....a good friend who i will say with certainty was never ever scamming anyone
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #746
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

How can anyone think JY is in the right here?

The man had debts, but instead of paying his debts, he sunk his net worth into a restaurant. Would have been a better excuse if he had said he gambled away his net worth. At least that would make him look honest. Now he just looks like a scumbag.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:27 PM   #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
How can anyone think JY is in the right here?

The man had debts, but instead of paying his debts, he sunk his net worth into a restaurant. Would have been a better excuse if he had said he gambled away his net worth. At least that would make him look honest. Now he just looks like a scumbag.
WOW, TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL!!!
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:29 PM   #748
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
How can anyone think JY is in the right here?

The man had debts, but instead of paying his debts, he sunk his net worth into a restaurant. Would have been a better excuse if he had said he gambled away his net worth. At least that would make him look honest. Now he just looks like a scumbag.
are you high???? he put his money into the restaurant before he had the debts....and if JY is a scumbag what is your analysis of chris??

anyone solely bashing JY has 0 credibility because there is no way anyone with half a brain or who isnt totally a fanboy of MM would take the time to bash JY without doing the same to MM
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:31 PM   #749
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I bet MM wishes he just paid now. Those texts are brutal. I was cringing reading them.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:31 PM   #750
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Just read this on page 11:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Also for what it's worth it comical that Jason thinks the number is 25k. I lost 15k and the last bet I made was on the Memphis grizzlies vs la clippers in the playoff series. I was down 7 and bet 7 on the game. Another thing that is unfactual in his story
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
To other guy when you bet with book and lose you must pay juice so 7 + 7700

So CM never owed JY 25k or 20k, seems to be 14700? Wonder why JY lied and told the people that he owed that CM owed him 25k?
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