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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-29-2013, 11:10 PM   #576
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
A more accurate, but still not great analogy would be you owe money for your Visa bill, let's say you bought a couch from a furniture store using your Visa card. It turns out Visa is insolvent and owes a ton of money to China. When the furniture store goes to collect payment for the couch, Visa can't pay them, your couch is repossessed. The end of the month comes around, your Visa bill says you owe $800 for the couch, do you pay it? Of course not. It's still not a good analogy, because it interjects a 4th party (the furniture store) that doesn't exist in the JY-CM-Sheets situation, but it's a lot more reasonable than the one you posted.
Umm - remind me again why you are bring four parties into your analogy (credit cardholder, Visa, China and the Furniture store) when MM and JY's situation involves three (MM, JY and JY's creditors)?

Yappingyoda's analogy is so much more on the mark than yours it's not funny
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:13 PM   #577
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
As Jason stated we have reached an agreement. I talked to a lot of people the last few days including sheets and jason. I may be gullible or an easy target but I am giving jason the benifit of the doubt based solely on his reputation in the past. His past reputation by all accounts is impecable. He has stayed in contact with the 3 guys I know he owes and is working to pay them off over a year later. My money will be going to that purpose and not to jason himself. I still know my timeline and my reasons for not paying are accurate and acceptable however jason has been around the poker world a long time and I couldn't find one person he has wronged outside of this situation. Based on that I am paying the money
Chris your thought process of hearing Jason owes other people money so you decide not to pay says a lot about you. I know it's solved but I'm guessing your character is a POS
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:18 PM   #578
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
Umm - remind me again why you are bring four parties into your analogy (credit cardholder, Visa, China and the Furniture store) when MM and JY's situation involves three (MM, JY and JY's creditors)?

Yappingyoda's analogy is so much more on the mark than yours it's not funny
I pointed out in my post that my analogy sucks, it was more an attempt to point out what the other analogy was lacking. The 4th party has to be brought in because in the first situation visa actually pays (this would be akin to Jason being able to pay if moneymaker won the bet, in which case MM would clearly owe the money). But, since it appears Jason was insolvent at the time, a better example is Visa appearing to be able to pay at the time of the transaction, but come collection time it is made clear that Visa never had the ability to pay so nothing was gained by the cardholder/moneymaker, and no money is owed.

Anyways, I'd be fine with taking both of these analogies and lighting them on fire and going back to the point of the thread though. Just thought his logic was lollllll.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:26 PM   #579
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
Anyways, I'd be fine with taking both of these analogies and lighting them on fire and going back to the point of the thread though.
I always feel like this when arguing on the internet. Kind of like that Louis CK bit about the kid asking "why?". Like this tangent has gone on way too long and we need to hit reset button.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:40 PM   #580
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
Chris your thought process of hearing Jason owes other people money so you decide not to pay says a lot about you. I know it's solved but I'm guessing your character is a POS
Explain this to me... If you find out after the fact you're getting freerolled why should you settle up?
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:04 AM   #581
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by YappingYoda View Post
So let me get this straight. By Chris's logic, if I owe Visa money for my credit card bill, and Visa owes China money from a loan that it took out but refuses to pay back, I have no obligation to pay my Visa bill (even though I owe the money) until Visa agrees to pays back China??? Visa's dealings with China have nothing to do with me, I owe Visa money, not China. I thought you were an accountant Chris? That's just screwed up gambler's logic.
Him owing other people money is totally irrelevant. When visa provides a service, there is no chance visa will owe him money so as long as the service was rendered they owe the money. The service JY offered however had the potential to owe CM money at a later date, and since JY was unable to perform this service some % of the time he was thus not offering the service as advertised. So a better analogy would be you go into a store, use your visa card, the card does not get authorized and visa doesn't promise the store to pay them back. The cardholder now can't purchase what he wants to purchase so goes home. He then looks at his bill and that charge is on there and visa still wants him to pay for a service they didn't render, much like JY did not render the service of offering a legit bet in which he would pay out if he lost.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:12 AM   #582
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Jason=scumbag, skeevy, skeezy, shady, sketchy

Moneymaker don't give this bum a cent
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:21 AM   #583
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Maybe you should have heeded my advice a little bit more

Very reasonable outcome. Congrats to MM in particular for doing the decent thing by the people that are owed money by JY.
no. The fact is you stated earlier that no one legitimate was coming forth about debts that Jason Young owed (proving he was insolvent) - then sheets and now assani speak up for small bets as little as 1k and 8k (and only paid back 500, and assani admits JY has not kept in contact).

You are so pro-chris young in this thread it's almost disgusting. You either know him in some manner, have some agenda, or are a troll. There is no way anyone who bets sports would think this is an equitable outcome for Chris.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:56 AM   #584
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
As Jason stated we have reached an agreement. I talked to a lot of people the last few days including sheets and jason. I may be gullible or an easy target but I am giving jason the benifit of the doubt based solely on his reputation in the past. His past reputation by all accounts is impecable. He has stayed in contact with the 3 guys I know he owes and is working to pay them off over a year later. My money will be going to that purpose and not to jason himself. I still know my timeline and my reasons for not paying are accurate and acceptable however jason has been around the poker world a long time and I couldn't find one person he has wronged outside of this situation. Based on that I am paying the money
Wow Chris I am totally shocked that you decided to pay JYoung anything before you confirmed he wasn't freerolling you. The guy hadn't responded to anyone's questions in over 3-4 days and you still made an agreement??? Look at Assani's posts that he couldn't collect $2k from JYoung FOR 18 MONTHS as the most recent example.

The only winners here are Sheets and Jason Young because all this "outing" did was pressure you into some kind of payment deal. Unfortunately, if you had won I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have seen a dollar of that money. You would have been added to the list that Jason owes and imo it is probably a long one.

Oh well, it's your money MM.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:59 AM   #585
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by gameoverjc View Post
no. The fact is you stated earlier that no one legitimate was coming forth about debts that Jason Young owed (proving he was insolvent) - then sheets and now assani speak up for small bets as little as 1k and 8k (and only paid back 500, and assani admits JY has not kept in contact).
Jason himself stated he owed money, that was never a question. Even with assani and sheets coming forward it doesn't prove Jason was insolvent at the time the bets took place (April). If the person who contacted Chris came forward and confirmed he was owed back in March/April then yeah, it would prove Jason was freerolling/scamming.

AK87 who Chris called on already stated he was owed money in October and not earlier as Chris has indicated.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:14 AM   #586
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

assani won his bet against jason the night of april-25-12

he is still owed 2k+ (16 month last 25)

therefore, jason was insolvent by the time he took chris' action, and freerolling him


*he apparently didnt keep in touch with assani, and gave him the run around the couple of times he could contact him.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:21 AM   #587
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

My first post ITT.

Chris with the new Assani information you really need to AT LEAST reconsider your decision. The minimum that you should require from JY is he answer a detailed list of questions about his debts and timelines of these debts when he was booking you. I would also demand the bookies name. Lastly make it clear that one lie, half truth or misrepresentation when answering these questions and he gets nothing.

If he won't do this tell him to get lost
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:37 AM   #588
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by JamesD816 View Post
My first post ITT.

Chris with the new Assani information you really need to AT LEAST reconsider your decision. The minimum that you should require from JY is he answer a detailed list of questions about his debts and timelines of these debts when he was booking you. I would also demand the bookies name. Lastly make it clear that one lie, half truth or misrepresentation when answering these questions and he gets nothing.

If he won't do this tell him to get lost
+10000000000000
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:09 AM   #589
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Since Jason makes the restaurant name/location public on his Twitter profile, it's obviously not a secret.

The restaurant is The Turn in Suffern, NY.

Here is a link to the Yelp reviews:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-turn-res...nd-bar-suffern

They are very mixed.

At first glance, they look overall pretty good, with a lot of 5-star ones. However, those are only 12 reviews. The other 30 are filtered. You need to click the "30 filtered" link near the bottom-left to see the rest of the reviews.

FYI, Yelp filters reviews in order to keep out shills and competing business owners, but the filter is overaggressive and basically shuts out anyone with very little other activity on Yelp.

The filtered reviews are also mixed, but lean a lot more negative than the 12 non-filtered ones.

The consensus of the negative reviews are:

- Overpriced

- Weird idiosyncrasies with the service, especially when you first arive

- Noisy

- Portions too small


People seem to like the restaurant's look, and overall the reviews on the food taste is mixed.

It is not clear how much Jason owns of this place. It's very possible he only has a small percentage.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:23 AM   #590
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Still hoping MM thinks this over again. I kinda hate how Sheets weaseled his way into the thread and obviously sided with JY even though deep down inside he probably knows JYvis in the wrong. Anything for $$
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:36 AM   #591
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

MM v JY

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:42 AM   #592
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Should have tried to collect the 5k the first week. Then JY wouldn't be saying anything.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:06 AM   #593
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Jason himself stated he owed money, that was never a question. Even with assani and sheets coming forward it doesn't prove Jason was insolvent at the time the bets took place (April). If the person who contacted Chris came forward and confirmed he was owed back in March/April then yeah, it would prove Jason was freerolling/scamming.

AK87 who Chris called on already stated he was owed money in October and not earlier as Chris has indicated.
Apparently you didn't bother reading assani's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by come on brotha View Post
assani won his bet against jason the night of april-25-12

he is still owed 2k+ (16 month last 25)

therefore, jason was insolvent by the time he took chris' action, and freerolling him



*he apparently didnt keep in touch with assani, and gave him the run around the couple of times he could contact him.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:12 AM   #594
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

what in the **** relevance do the yelp reviews have to this situation???

also LOLOLOLOLOL at kilowatt nominating himself to be an impartial arbiter when he has been vocally pro CM and anti JY for the duration of this thread.

let me be perfectly clear i am not taking a side in this situation. my LOL'ing at kilowatt is not an attack on CM nor a defense of JY.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #595
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I feel as if arguing with you will only hurt my chances of getting paid, so I won't bother posting here much more. As soon as I am paid, I will mention it in this thread so that your reputation can be cleared. The best way to contact me is via twitter or 2p2 PM.
Has Jason contacted you since you posted here?
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:55 AM   #596
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

watching the reviews 'his' restaurant gets is basically a testimony of character. He also brought it onto himself when he started blackmailing MM with his reputation in a situation where apparantly most of the community think he's wrong. Dont throw bricks when you live in a glass house.

And indeed more people start coming into the thread saying he owes them money from that period. Wont be the last imo.

Reason for 'resolving' this is kinda strange too. MM couldnt find any wrongdoings "outside of this situation"
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:01 AM   #597
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by riverboatking View Post
what in the **** relevance do the yelp reviews have to this situation???

also LOLOLOLOLOL at kilowatt nominating himself to be an impartial arbiter when he has been vocally pro CM and anti JY for the duration of this thread.

let me be perfectly clear i am not taking a side in this situation. my LOL'ing at kilowatt is not an attack on CM nor a defense of JY.
I offered to arbitrate before I fully realized how likely it was that Jason was both full of crap about the bookie and insolvent at the time of the bet.

I admit that, at this point, I feel too strongly one way to be a fair choice as an arbitrator.

However, I am not pro-Chris. I just felt he was getting screwed by Jason.

If you read my summary of the situation, I stated that I felt that Chris was also busto at the time of the bet. Certainly that statement would not have come from a Moneymaker asskisser, fanboy, or friend.

Oh, and the Yelp reviews of the restaurant don't have much to do with the situation at all. But more than a few people were curious about the restaurant, so I posted a link to its reviews. I wouldn't have done this if the information were private, but Jason proudly gives out that information on his public Twitter account, so obviously it's not a secret.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:08 AM   #598
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

why do people use irl bookies instead of internet ones, better odds?

the bets itt arent big enough for pinnacle to handle?

fwiw im clueless about irl bookies etc, obv.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:14 AM   #599
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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why do people use irl bookies instead of internet ones, better odds?
I assume it's for tax purposes.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:14 AM   #600
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
I offered to arbitrate before I fully realized how likely it was that Jason was both full of crap about the bookie and insolvent at the time of the bet.

I admit that, at this point, I feel too strongly one way to be a fair choice as an arbitrator.

However, I am not pro-Chris. I just felt he was getting screwed by Jason.

If you read my summary of the situation, I stated that I felt that Chris was also busto at the time of the bet. Certainly that statement would not have come from a Moneymaker asskisser, fanboy, or friend.

Oh, and the Yelp reviews of the restaurant don't have much to do with the situation at all. But more than a few people were curious about the restaurant, so I posted a link to its reviews. I wouldn't have done this if the information were private, but Jason proudly gives out that information on his public Twitter account, so obviously it's not a secret.
oh ya i was in no way saying i thought your take on the situation was off base. just thought it was funny that you were nominating yourself as an arbiter when there is obv no way JY would ever allow that to happen.

i don't think anything you've said ITT is without merit.
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