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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2013, 03:14 PM   #651
JamesD816
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
Why? He has zero incentive to make any additional posts once the deal is made.
I disagree, JY has plenty incentive to remain ITT. The dispute with Chris is far less significant then his reputation in and out of the poker world. Not responding to accusations in this thread does lend credibility to them. Also the new info coming out over JY not paying a very very small debt to Assani, who he ironically asked to escrow before the wager, should make Chris rethink his decision . I think this dispute is far from being settled.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:15 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesD816 View Post
I disagree, JY has plenty incentive to remain ITT. The dispute with Chris is far less significant then his reputation in and out of the poker world. Not responding to accusations in this thread does lend credibility to them. Also the new info coming out over JY not paying a very very small debt to Assani, who he ironically asked to escrow before the wager, should make Chris rethink his decision . I think this dispute is far from being settled.
If they reached a deal...I think this thread should be locked.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #653
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by AK87 View Post
I'm clearly just as biased as Sheets in this situation but skimming the thread, it is pretty comical to read some of the responses. It's no surprise people like putting down others and stirring up gossip for no other benefit than their own. It's NVG, I get it.

I'm not entirely sure on the details of the Assani situation, but I would venture to say that the majority of poker pros could be ruled insolvent if this situation were the precedent.

I mainly came here to say similar things Sheets has said about JY during the situation. He easily could have told us to f off and that would be that. I would have made a thread or at least a post in the relevant forum/thread letting people know of the situation. Is that his motivation for staying in contact and wanting to make this right? Possibly. But I can tell you that he has been in contact throughout the whole ordeal fully knowing his financial situation, even before I entertained that thought.

It is a frustrating situation for all parties, no one is arguing against that. However, I am relatively sure that JY shouldn't be crucified because his wings appetizer comes with 8 wings instead of the standard 10.
imho the "he is a nice guy and wants to pay us but he cant" is bs... come on, he dug himself a hole with multiple bets/players and now owns 20k+? (lowballing), besides that he opens a restaurant with your money, and he even keeps gambling himself...


"but he is a nice guy and he will pay when he can"...
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:27 PM   #654
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by David123 View Post
why do people use irl bookies instead of internet ones, better odds?

the bets itt arent big enough for pinnacle to handle?

fwiw im clueless about irl bookies etc, obv.
Pinnacle doesn't take credit from busto loser degens
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #655
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
This still doesn't prove Jason was insolvent at the time of the bet. Looks like Assani didn't really make much of effort to collect until early 2013. Jason also didn't make much of an effort to pay this bet. The only thing this proves is that both are pretty lazy.

Either way, if Chris' action was being booked by a third party Jason's financial situation is irrelevant.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if Jason was 100% broke in April and Assani knew this, it wouldn't have been known to Chris and therefore wouldn't have had a reason not to pay. According to Chris he was tipped of back in April 2012 yet he hasn't proven any of this. How difficult is it to bring in 1 of 3 people?

If that 18k guy cam in then yeah, Jason would look like a complete scumbag.
lol, im sure assani contacted him, and jason never responded or gave him some excuse.

a simple truth ive learned: IF SOMEONE WHO OWES YOU DOESNT PAY YOU IS BECAUSE HE DOESNT HAVE THE MONEY, the rest are just made up excuses
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #656
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:07 PM   #657
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
Stick with your decision this time. You were right from the get-go.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:08 PM   #658
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

swongs
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:18 PM   #659
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

good choice dunlap.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:20 PM   #660
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
+1
 
Old 10-30-2013, 04:28 PM   #661
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

A lot of variance in this thread!
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:29 PM   #662
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
Chris you seem to be sorta bouncing between polar opposite ends of the spectrum which i'd guess is mostly just telling of your desire for the matter to be put behind you, but I think a better line would be to say you are holding off on paying at least for now and putting the pressure back on Jason to come back in here and answer some of the tough questions kilowatt and others have posed to him before making your final decision. if he can't/won't do that then I'd think most everyone would agree that you are absolutely correct to not pay him.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:46 PM   #663
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by NLSoldier View Post
Chris you seem to be sorta bouncing between polar opposite ends of the spectrum which i'd guess is mostly just telling of your desire for the matter to be put behind you, but I think a better line would be to say you are holding off on paying at least for now and putting the pressure back on Jason to come back in here and answer some of the tough questions kilowatt and others have posed to him before making your final decision. if he can't/won't do that then I'd think most everyone would agree that you are absolutely correct to not pay him.
+1

I just think it's obvious from JY's attitude and actions within this thread that he has no desire or ability to squarely address the questions kilowatt posed.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:53 PM   #664
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

lol i thought it was standard for all broke mtt pros to get put into 5k's
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:55 PM   #665
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.

Well said Chris.

Although I read the thread from the outset I jumped in and posted very late, after Assani posted. The reason I waited was see all the facts and variables come to light.

Your decision to pay JY looked like a bad decision but there was some gray area and it seemed like you valued your rep and putting this behind you enough to bite the bullet. If you paid after Assini and JY just vanishing, you would be an idiot, glad to see you are not an idiot. You, sheets, and many others ITT came off real well in my eyes. Good luck in the future.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:09 PM   #666
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLSoldier View Post
Chris you seem to be sorta bouncing between polar opposite ends of the spectrum which i'd guess is mostly just telling of your desire for the matter to be put behind you, but I think a better line would be to say you are holding off on paying at least for now and putting the pressure back on Jason to come back in here and answer some of the tough questions kilowatt and others have posed to him before making your final decision. if he can't/won't do that then I'd think most everyone would agree that you are absolutely correct to not pay him.
ffs this
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:25 PM   #667
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

JFC this thread. Dammit. I thought this was going to be over.

I was sorta on dunlaps side of things at the start, but dear god JY looks so bad now. Derp, just trying to do the right thing while telling people that I don't have enough to cover debts b/c I was clearly freerolling someone who now owes and it's his fault your not getting paid.

Come on buddy. Coommmeeee on buddy.

Dunlap looks bad too obv but jfc at the people who are saying "a bets a bet pay up".
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:33 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
Nice threadsaver
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #669
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by sheetsworld View Post
Well this is sort of what I told Chris on the phone....even if Chris did decide to pay Jason, it is not as simple as "oh ok i will just pay xyz"....because there are many others in the same boat who are owed money from Jason (like the kid who was alerted to the thread) would want to get paid sooner as well.
And this is why paying you and others is very complicated and messy and not equitable at all to any of the bettors Jason owes (which are many).

If there is one solution, it's Chris should not pay.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:11 PM   #670
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Nothing to add. Agree with CM not paying from all ive read. Hope this is resolved to everyones satisfaction sometime soon
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #671
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Until evidence is shown that jason could have paid mm, and that he had funds available to do so when the bets were made, and that other winners have been paid,I agree with Chris' decision.

Chris, I'd still like to know were your bets placed online, through a third party, or through jason directly.

If placed directly through jason, then you definitely should not pay.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:26 PM   #672
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
Why? He has zero incentive to make any additional posts once the deal is made.
This goes out against what Jason has stated. According to him, he cares about his reputation in the community and doing right by others.

According to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
This still doesn't prove Jason was insolvent at the time of the bet. Looks like Assani didn't really make much of effort to collect until early 2013. Jason also didn't make much of an effort to pay this bet. The only thing this proves is that both are pretty lazy.
Yes it does. Using your logic then any bet he didn't pay doesn't implicate Jason as insolvent. If he owed 100k, we could use that flawed rationale there too.

In regards to your comment of effort by Assani:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
...

On 4/26/12 I sent this PM on 2p2:

Then on 12/23/12:

I also believe that I tried to email him(through 2p2- theres an option for that), but there is no record of that. Its also possible that I sent more 2p2 PMs, as my mailbox is always in the upper 90% so I have to clean it out every now and then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Either way, if Chris' action was being booked by a third party Jason's financial situation is irrelevant.
All evidence points to Jason booking the bets directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Even if Jason was 100% broke in April and Assani knew this, it wouldn't have been known to Chris and therefore wouldn't have had a reason not to pay. According to Chris he was tipped of back in April 2012 yet he hasn't proven any of this. How difficult is it to bring in 1 of 3 people?

If that 18k guy cam in then yeah, Jason would look like a complete scumbag.
No one is claiming Chris is an angel. But lots of people with experience in sports betting are stating Chris got freerolled, and he shouldn't try to rectify this situation for Jason for all the other people who got freerolled.

This is a key fact you are missing. You are claiming that Chris would have never got freerolled, and 3 people have already come forth stating they basically have been. And getting paid $500 in 1+ year on an 8k payout is being freerolled, if you can't see what's going on I'll explain: Jason is trying to do is clear his name a bit so he can take more bets and get out of debt.

So let's try to follow your rationale:

First you state that one has to prove that Jason was insolvent by way of unpaid bets on April (done - re: assani).
Then you reverse your thought process and state that doesn't matter because it's a small bet (logic flaw, then any bet doesn't matter in April that he couldn't pay).
Then you state Chris should pay if there is a 3rd party/bookie (which there most likely isn't, and if there was, why should Chris pay a bookie who skipped town according to Jason and didn't pay out?)
Then you claim, well even if all above are true, Chris didn't know at the time so he should pay anyway. (but he knows all this now, when payment is being asked for via smearing Chris' name)

Your logic has a lot of flaws and I hope you can see why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.

Last edited by gameoverjc; 10-30-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:53 PM   #673
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Are the other guys that are owed substantial sums 2+2 members? It'd be nice if they came in explained how JY has handled owing them $$ and hear their stories.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:33 PM   #674
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Current graph for thread

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Old 10-30-2013, 08:43 PM   #675
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam341 View Post
Are the other guys that are owed substantial sums 2+2 members? It'd be nice if they came in explained how JY has handled owing them $$ and hear their stories.
I agree their stories would make things far more clear and probably drive the final nail into JY's story. However they may want to stay anonymous, like you obviously do. The last thing they want to do is tick off JY since he owes them money.
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