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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-26-2013, 01:46 AM   #376
j7v6kb
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

If I was Jason I would eat the 20k and call it a cheap lesson.

These guys went down around the same time Jason couldn't pay October winners...
http://www.trentonian.com/article/TT...WS01/121029679
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #377
SGT RJ
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Don't respond to trolls, guys.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:47 AM   #378
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Todd is a bracelet winner.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #379
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I made it through 100 posts before totally wanting to blow my brains out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
To both of you: Sob stories about how you've been scammed in the past don't mean squat. Sorry you made bad business and/or life decisions. Don't use them to curry any sort of favor here. Just makes you look weak and desperate.

To CM: Pay your debts, dood. You don't get to claim any moral high ground by speculating about what might have happened had you won. What, now everyone you want action with is going to have to ask himself "Hm, in addition to the game we're betting on, I need to factor in the odds associated with the Chris thinking I'm good for the money if he wins??? That's not how this works, bud.

To JY: Sounds like you owe some money. Pay it. You don't get to concede that you haven't paid your debts, but claim any moral high ground by saying "I’ve made arrangements with the people that are owed, been in constant contact with them the entire time, inviting them to come speak to me personally in NY." You can rationalize it to yourself that way, but you wagered with money you didn't have (or vouched for people with money you didn't have, same thing.) Whatever restaurant you're choosing to flush your money doesn't mean squat in this situation.
Here's an idea- let's see what the contract has to say.

What's that, you don't have a contract? Gg.

You have tens of thousands of dollars on the line (or millions if you believe Jason), yet you act like children with play money and throw numbers around with people you barely know, then ***** and complain when things go south.

Clearly neither player in this ordeal is very intelligent (Chris, jesus man, proofread your posts), and neither has anywhere near enough $ that $20k isn't a ****ton of cash.

Hopefully this laughable situation will provide some education for others.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:59 AM   #380
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
I made it through 100 posts before totally wanting to blow my brains out.



Here's an idea- let's see what the contract has to say.

What's that, you don't have a contract? Gg.

You have tens of thousands of dollars on the line (or millions if you believe Jason), yet you act like children with play money and throw numbers around with people you barely know, then ***** and complain when things go south.

Clearly neither player in this ordeal is very intelligent (Chris, jesus man, proofread your posts), and neither has anywhere near enough $ that $20k isn't a ****ton of cash.

Hopefully this laughable situation will provide some education for others.
So now people are supposed to have signed contracts for every sports bet they make? lmao
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #381
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
I made it through 100 posts before totally wanting to blow my brains out.



Here's an idea- let's see what the contract has to say.

What's that, you don't have a contract? Gg.

You have tens of thousands of dollars on the line (or millions if you believe Jason), yet you act like children with play money and throw numbers around with people you barely know, then ***** and complain when things go south.

Clearly neither player in this ordeal is very intelligent (Chris, jesus man, proofread your posts), and neither has anywhere near enough $ that $20k isn't a ****ton of cash.

Hopefully this laughable situation will provide some education for others.
Illegal contracts are void.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:42 AM   #382
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
I made it through 100 posts before totally wanting to blow my brains out.



Here's an idea- let's see what the contract has to say.

What's that, you don't have a contract? Gg.

You have tens of thousands of dollars on the line (or millions if you believe Jason), yet you act like children with play money and throw numbers around with people you barely know, then ***** and complain when things go south.
If only those guys would've had a contract with Pablo Escobar for all that cocaine maybe things would've turned out differently? Right Einstein?
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:48 PM   #383
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanSooners
Sigh, u didn't grasp the most important part which is that JY isn't on the hook for anything if he is truly the agent other than his own players and then he's only liable for a % if that but it's usually a freeroll.
I did grasp that part and addressed it in the very next post after the one you quoted before you even responded. With the example you wrote out where you said in JY world he's fine because he has more money coming in than going out, if JY was indeed an agent and is freerolling then he's always fine regardless of how the bets are going since he's not on the hook for anything, which would mean your example is completely unecessary. Your example looks to be referencing JY's solvency as far as being able to pay people out, but if he's just an agent then he doesn't have to pay anything out. Regardless how you spin it, even if he's an agent who owes nothing, it doesn't make sense for him to be pressuring CM into paying off the debt to another victim of the bookie, when he himself is a victim as well from being freerolled. What Jason was or wasn't in this situation is immaterial from CM perspective. If the person taking CM's bets (JY himself or some "bookie") couldn't pay out then CM shouldn't have to pay.

The more realistic situation here anyway as other seasoned sportsbettors have alluded to is JY simply decided he was going to be the bookie himself and front as an agent, where he will tell his players he will do his best to make them whole, but ultimately try to place blame/fault on some ficticious other person. This way he can get more bets placed from instilling confidence in people, but have outs for if he can't pay out. In that situation he's clearly scammed.

Last edited by boobies4me; 10-26-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:49 PM   #384
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

i had a contract with my ex wife, but still lost
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:57 PM   #385
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob999 View Post
If only those guys would've had a contract with Pablo Escobar for all that cocaine maybe things would've turned out differently? Right Einstein?
I don't know, he may have an idea that could revolutionize illegal activities. Think about it, what if everyone involved in illegal activities took the time to write down all of the illegal things they were doing and had both parties sign the document. What could ever go wrong?
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:58 PM   #386
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by onebigdummy View Post
i had a contract with my ex wife, but still lost
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #387
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevko_2000 View Post
So now people are supposed to have signed contracts for every sports bet they make? lmao
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPB383 View Post
Illegal contracts are void.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob999 View Post
If only those guys would've had a contract with Pablo Escobar for all that cocaine maybe things would've turned out differently? Right Einstein?
Lol no, but my point is that it's childish to throw around these huge #s involving thousands of dollars (millions if you believe Jason) with no security measures in place. As stated itt, a bet at a legit sports book gives you a receipt and is your contract with the book. Betting w/ randos on the internet and people who've done nothing to earn your trust is just asking for trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebigdummy View Post
i had a contract with my ex wife, but still lost
Sounds like you had a pretty ****ty contract.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:34 PM   #388
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
Lol no, but my point is that it's childish to throw around these huge #s involving thousands of dollars (millions if you believe Jason) with no security measures in place. As stated itt, a bet at a legit sports book gives you a receipt and is your contract with the book. Betting w/ randos on the internet and people who've done nothing to earn your trust is just asking for trouble.



Sounds like you had a pretty ****ty contract.
Do you not see why an illegal operation running out of the US would not want to give away all of that information?
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post

Jason has shown himself to be insolvent, so it's very likely he was freerolling Chris. If he can't pay sheets when Chris lost, how could he have paid Chris if Chris won?



.
Post of the thread winner.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:36 PM   #390
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramerica View Post
my opinion on the situation doesn't matter, but i'm on JY's side. But lol @ u guys all admitting to all this illegal sportsbetting and bookies and stuff for everyone to read... use some sense FFS!
talk about using some ****ing common sense holy ****, you're on jy's side? do you even know how to read, lucas?
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:39 PM   #391
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post
Lol no, but my point is that it's childish to throw around these huge #s involving thousands of dollars (millions if you believe Jason) with no security measures in place. As stated itt, a bet at a legit sports book gives you a receipt and is your contract with the book. Betting w/ randos on the internet and people who've done nothing to earn your trust is just asking for trouble.



Sounds like you had a pretty ****ty contract.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:10 PM   #392
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

should not be so contentious
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:41 AM   #393
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

need an update
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #394
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
In fact, you could very easily cancel this bet even if Jason did have the money, as your bet was with the bookie, not Jason. If the bookie doesn't exist, you bet with a nonexistent party, and therefore the bet is null and void.

Similarly, I can announce that I have a $100,000 bet with Manti Teo's girlfriend Lennay Kekua, and "she" could never collect, because "she" doesn't exist. If someone came to me and said that they paid Lennay the $100,000 I owed her, I would not be responsible to pay them back, as it is impossible to pay a debt to a fictitious person.
Most of the time you are correct but I think you are wrong about the bolded part. I don't see how it matters that JY was a booker himself and had the money to pay if he loses (having the money is obviously the crucial part) instead of being an agent to another booker.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:02 AM   #395
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I really doubt Jason is trying to scam anyone here, as he has told me that whatever he does collect from Chris will be going to other people he owes.

It is not as if he plans on keeping the money if Chris pays him.

Maybe that doesnt matter? I spoke to Jason yesterday and asked him alot of tough questions, and while I never have actually met him in person, I am convinced that his heart is in the right place.

I also had an equally long talk with Chris some time ago, and I was actually convinced that his heart was in the right place also. He felt that he had taken the high road too many times, and felt that his days of being taken advantage of due to his name were over, and that he shouldn't pay, if he felt he would not have gotten paid if he won.

Please keep in mind that I am completely not neutral here, as I would far prefer to have Chris pay, but with that caveat.....

I guess the one question I would have for Chris, though, is....if he had won, would he be attempting to collect his winnings? If so, then I can't quite get a handle on the idea that he should not pay if he lost. If that is the case, then who exactly is being freerolled here? (That is, if Chris would have wanted to get paid if he won but is using Jasons "insolnevcy" or whatever you call it, as a reason to not pay now.)

As usual my logic probably has alot of holes in it. I am probably biased and not thinking straight, as is typical of most biased people.

idk

F Sports.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #396
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Sheets,
The answer to your question is quite obvious, but that does not affect in any way the lingering question, if he won, would he have been paid? Evidence presented itt, is no.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:27 AM   #397
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

+1 to Cliffs post above

Jason's "heart being in the right place" does NOT mean he had the ability to pay Chris had he won. As Cliffs said, all evidence so far shows that Jason would have been unable to pay.

Chris loses, Jason happily collects. Had Chris won, he gets thrown to back of the line and its anybody's guess if and when he ever receives a dime.

Based on testimonials or what people have said about Jason itt, I don't think he's a straight up "scammer", but sounds like this was pretty shady on his part.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #398
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

If I would of won of course I would want to be paid. However, after years of experience I would of realized that I not getting anything and gave up. This is what makes me an easy target I guess. I write off the debt after I realize I am not collecting.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #399
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

If sheets is still waiting to get paid over a year later it seems as if Chris actually won the line would be longer and deeper with very little light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #400
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
If I would of won of course I would want to be paid. However, after years of experience I would of realized that I not getting anything and gave up. This is what makes me an easy target I guess. I write off the debt after I realize I am not collecting.
BS, CM you lost a bet so pay the man and forget the other crap. JY never rolled you before from what I understand. Stop blaming others for your screw ups for once in your life, payoff this bet, learn from it and move on. When you make a decision to do anything in life YOU own it good or bad.
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