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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:54 PM   #876
Rob999
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
Not certain. But the circumstantial evidence that has come forward, would lead any reasonable person to conclude
4- JY was insolvent in April due to the FACT (not opinion) that he did not pay assani for the 2k bet he lost. And still has not paid.
Or JY was working 190 hrs a week and forgets $2000 bets on 2+2 at the same time that he decided to take a break from logging in to 2+2 after 8 months straight of logging in 5 times a day.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:56 PM   #877
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Kilotwaat, where does that handy flow chart refer to getting out of a bet if you find out you would have been paid by somebody other than the person you made the bet with? Please tell me I'm wrong and that I didn't actually read that earlier itt?
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:57 PM   #878
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
if anyone/ all of the investigators took any time to read the hsnl thread where the assani bet was made....you could see i was active- had active balances with many and all to my knowledge were handled both paying and being paid.

it was a super active thread with swaps and transfers done a ton, after the outtage you can see that i did not re-appear in the thread...i started a business that i worked 110+ hours a week.

it is super clear for anyone to see that i was plenty plenty solvent and its not even close at the point of the assani bet. After reviewing it, his first post that I see was in May after the outtage- i literally didnt know about this debt until this summer like i stated before.

look at the communications in there if you want and see the amount of people involved this should truly put an end to the debate of whether or not i had $ at the time.
I believe you, but I can see that you're having some issues convincing others ITT(and although you claim to not care, you kinda do seem to care about what they think- or at the very least you care about your reputation which makes you indirectly care what they think). Heres my advice for getting others to believe you as I do....


You claim that you had so many active balances with people that you completely forgot about losing a $2k bet to me. I think thats reasonable, and I also think most here ITT think thats reasonable. But if you had this much action then wouldn't it have been a good idea to spend a few minutes on 2p2 to check to make sure all your action has been settled? I mean, what if you had won the bet against me- that $1k surely would've helped out with starting your new business, right?

I think this is the disconnect for many ITT. I have tried to have your back on some of this stuff, but I think other people are going to demand a better explanation as to your decision to not come back on 2p2. Since it coincided with you losing the bet to me, many here are assuming that it was intentional on your part. And regardless of whatever your true intentions may have been, I think it demonstrates a lack of self-awareness to assume people wouldn't jump to this conclusion based upon the information given. I think that if you want everyone to believe you then you need to give a more satisfactory explanation of your thought process here.

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 10-31-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:58 PM   #879
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Quote:
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Kilowatt is on fire

No you!! ... this thread truly is 6*
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:59 PM   #880
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Uh whatever,

Here is what I think. Matters are so much simpler:

Moneymaker is broke and is using this as an excuse.
Justin Young is super broke and can't handle being a degen.

They should handle this outside the thread and people should stop saying **** about either because at the end of the day it doesn't concern us.

Poker players are all broke and are degenerate gambles. We just have to face the facts and get on with our lives. These things happen every single second in the poker world.

I'm also broke.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:00 PM   #881
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BklynGrinder View Post
Whether or not there was a bookie doesnt seem to matter much imo, once MM threatens to go public with this JY should write the money off as 20k doesnt seem to be worth the life EV of opening yourself up to possible criminal charges.
According to the OP, JY was the one who threatened to go public. MM just beat him to the punch.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:07 PM   #882
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by heater View Post
According to the OP, JY was the one who threatened to go public. MM just beat him to the punch.
He was just "threatening" to blackmail that dolt Moneymaker into paying. It didn't quite have the effect JY had envisioned.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:07 PM   #883
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Old 10-31-2013, 07:09 PM   #884
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I believe you, but I can see that you're having some issues convincing others ITT(and although you claim to not care, you kinda do seem to care about what they think- or at the very least you care about your reputation which makes you indirectly care what they think). Heres my advice for getting others to believe you as I do....


You claim that you had so many active balances with people that you completely forgot about losing a $2k bet to me. I think thats reasonable, and I also think most here ITT think thats reasonable. But if you had this much action then wouldn't it have been a good idea to spend a few minutes on 2p2 to check to make sure all your action has been settled? I mean, what if you had won the bet against me- that $1k surely would've helped out with starting your new business, right?

I think this is the disconnect for many ITT. I have tried to have your back on some of this stuff, but I think other people are going to demand a better explanation as to your decision to not come back on 2p2. Since it coincided with you losing the bet to me, many here are assuming that it was intentional on your part. I think that if you want everyone to believe you then you need to give a more satisfactory explanation of your thought process here.
Great point- thank you actually- after the lccf fiasco the regs had a private forum where we communicated and a group on Skype- in addition to that we all had each others contact info so we kept in touch via aim, Skype or text
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:11 PM   #885
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
im a hothead yet your the one coming into the thread and telling me to GTFO......who has provided evidence?? kilowatt has provided NO evidence ...he has simply drawn conclusions.....maybe you arent smart enough to decipher between evidence and opinions .....with that said.. you can GTFO
thanks for proving my point bud

(hint: kilowatt doesn't need to provide evidence, and it doesn't even make sense that he would have any to provide)
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:12 PM   #886
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Wow, just wow, this thread keeps on giving, and giving...

We all are, to some extent, Big Brother nation, and feel free and invited to comment on other ppl lives and decisions they make. And I am no exception. So here are my 2cents.

Just to start of with saying I live about 5000 miles from both of them, have never met either of them, and quiet possibly have never been in same city/country as these two have been.

First of all, seems like they both, CM (or MM - however you wish to call him) and JY have been and will conveniently miss few facts in their posts which are not in their favor. (not to use stronger words - such as "lie").

Secondly, I genuinely believe that CM is really,really god guy. I also believe that JY is really awkward in communicating this with public - to "random droolers" and other lurkers and posters in NVG.

Now for some of my conclusions and deductions (if of any relevance I had an A in logic, and do have a piece of paper that says I finished law school):

- CM did not cash (liquid assets) to pay JY if he had to pay - confirmed by SMS sent by CM to JY
- JY served as an escrow, agent and the book all the way to the March/April with immaculate record - confirmed by old 2+2 thread
- JY continued serving as agent/possibly bookie(the book - do excuse my English, I'm not 100% sure of a proper term), after March/April, although he fully Known he would not be able to pay if he was ever put in spot where he has to pay (bookie runs of and he vouched or it turns out he was the bookie) - given the timeframe I think this is NOT RELEVANT to this situation
- still not sure how to think about Assani/JY situation - other then the fact JY mishandled it to an extent where it could actually be treated as his finding the way to get out of paying 2k (at least at first)

- CM should pay
- JY HAS TO use that to pay the guys he owes money
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:12 PM   #887
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4JesseJames4 View Post
thanks for proving my point bud

(hint: kilowatt doesn't need to provide evidence, and it doesn't even make sense that he would have any to provide)
LOL. So much win.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:15 PM   #888
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CursedbyaGypsy View Post
Poker players are all broke and are degenerate gambles. We just have to face the facts and get on with our lives. These things happen every single second in the poker world.

Disagree strongly here. I think there are good people in poker, and although this may be my ego at play, I think I am one of them....

I've spent the last ~2 years losing in tournaments and some tough online games. I'm currently playing low/mid stakes live poker every single day- its not that fun, especially after having much more money in the past. In addition to this issue, I also have 2 other people who owe me money and Bovada owes me money. Despite all this, I feel as if I've gone about things the right way, I am going to be successful longterm because I have a good work ethic and poker skill level, and I've never once scammed anyone.


So I don't think its fair for you to look down upon all poker players in this manner. I think people like me(and a ton others!!!!) deserve better than that. And I think threads like this help separate the good guys from the not so good guys, so I think they are useful(to a degree).
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:19 PM   #889
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Great point- thank you actually- after the lccf fiasco the regs had a private forum where we communicated and a group on Skype- in addition to that we all had each others contact info so we kept in touch via aim, Skype or text

I do wish the regs could've pointed me to those skype convos when I tried asking them of a way to find you: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19.../#post32982228


But in fairness, I will say that I think this is a reasonable answer on your part.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:27 PM   #890
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Awww, I thought you were Mr online PLO8. Just like I used to think oogee was Mr online triple draw. Looks like I've been sadly disabused of both notions.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:27 PM   #891
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

This thread reminds me of that charity scam guy who welched on the stupid Kid Rock tickets and then it turned into fraud and fake testimonials.

If MM pays or not, this thread is a frickin killer.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:33 PM   #892
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I love how Jason and his lackey seem to think they're better than everyone. "Who are you?" "I don't even know who you are!" "I'm not going to respond to randoms." Get over youreslves, you're nobodies to 99.99999% of the world just like the rest of us.

It was your idea to take this public to shame MM and now you refuse to discuss the issue with "randoms?" Makes lots of sense. Perhaps it's because they're asking tough questions you didn't anticipate...
 
Old 10-31-2013, 07:34 PM   #893
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Is MM not backed by stars?
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:35 PM   #894
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

If someone owed me several thousand dollars, owned a restaurant, and lived within several hours of my home, a payment plan would be very simple. I would show up to that restaurant every Saturday night with my wife, girlfriend, or group of friends. I would order several bottles of the most expensive wine and gourge myself on appetizers, entrees, and dessert. The charge for every single meal would go on my "tab". Which would go against every ****ing penny this degenerate owed me. Every birthday, rehearsal dinner, wedding shower, and graduation party would be held at this very same establishment. And if said owner had an "issue" with this arrangement, then I would be more than happy to arrange a more "creative" payment plan.



PS Kilowatt owns this thread
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:36 PM   #895
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I make a bet with you. After losing the bet, but before paying, you discover absolute 100% airtight evidence that I never would've paid you had you won. Do you still pay me?

If your answer is yes, I'd say you're in a very small minority. And if it's no, your whole post was pretty pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Let's deal with today.

You seem to be failing to understand why so many people here are skeptical of you, and also seem to be confused as to what questions you need to answer.

Let me help you out, and I'll even put it in color, just so you don't miss it:

1) Can you provide any evidence that this bookie really existed? If you can't do it publicly, can you do it privately to a trusted, unbiased third party? If not, WHY?

2) Can you provide any evidence that you had the money to cover Chris' bet at the time he made it? Show us that you had $20,000 more than all of the money you owed others on that day.


(hint: Claiming you were willing to pay $5k on that day does nothing to prove you had $20k!)

Please provide these answers. We're 54 pages in, and the two items above are what everyone wants to know.

Everything else you write is just fluff and garbage, and nobody besides a few braindead monkeys seems to be falling for it.
He claimed he PAID Chris's bet off to his bookie. Keep that in mind. He claimed he paid it.

To me, Justin is engaging in nothing other than a smear campaign, and has posted little to any relevant info besides disparaging Chris. He also keeps harping on his immaculate record - news flash: Everyone who has played high stakes has been either A) scammed before B) dealt with large sums of money.

A majority of those people aren't good for that money TODAY.

Jason only has to answer those two questions really. Was there a bookie (prove to someone there was) and show how he covered for Chris's bet.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:38 PM   #896
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
I love how Jason and his lackey seem to think they're better than everyone. "Who are you?" "I don't even know who you are!" "I'm not going to respond to randoms." Get over youreslves, you're nobodies to 99.99999% of the world just like the rest of us.

It was your idea to take this public to shame MM and now you refuse to discuss the issue with "randoms?" Makes lots of sense. Perhaps it's because they're asking tough questions you didn't anticipate...
They are also nobodies to most people who play poker.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:41 PM   #897
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by CoronalDischarge View Post
Awww, I thought you were Mr online PLO8. Just like I used to think oogee was Mr online triple draw. Looks like I've been sadly disabused of both notions.
Heh, I'll still hold to the claim that I'm one of the very best deepstacked PLO8 HU players out there, but I definitely got passed by in the past few years when it comes to 6 max or full ring with 40-100BB. And since PokerStars seems to make decisions that destroy my edges(no HU PLO8 tables, no deepstacked tables above $1/2 after Black Friday, no ways to prevent bumhunters who constantly sit in when a fish joins a table you started) I've struggled in recent years.

I actually wasn't even using a HUD pre-Black Friday, which goes to show just how un-evolved PLO8 was at the time. I think many of us let ourselves buy into the notion that we are so great, but in reality its just taking advantage of weak players and eventually people do start to learn and catch up.

Also I took a calculated risk to take a bunch of shots at MTTs in the past ~2 years and that hasn't worked out well at all....I think my edge in these fields is very solid, but variance in MTTs is obviously absurd. But whatever- overall I'm not complaining with my life, its solid and I'm happy(even without being the best at PLO8 anymore).
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:48 PM   #898
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Disagree strongly here. I think there are good people in poker, and although this may be my ego at play, I think I am one of them....

I've spent the last ~2 years losing in tournaments and some tough online games. I'm currently playing low/mid stakes live poker every single day- its not that fun, especially after having much more money in the past. In addition to this issue, I also have 2 other people who owe me money and Bovada owes me money. Despite all this, I feel as if I've gone about things the right way, I am going to be successful longterm because I have a good work ethic and poker skill level, and I've never once scammed anyone.


So I don't think its fair for you to look down upon all poker players in this manner. I think people like me(and a ton others!!!!) deserve better than that. And I think threads like this help separate the good guys from the not so good guys, so I think they are useful(to a degree).
I completely respect what you are saying. But my point is this Jason Young seems like a degen. Gamblers have this false illusion that they will pay the money back all the time. Everyone is responsible for their own actions but I was just making the point that he's broke and what he was doing by not answering you on Twitter is great proof of that. It's what degens do.

He's so broke that he had to come out on 2+2 and make a fool of himself.

Just make out a payment plan with him. I'm sure you can figure something out regarding the 2k. It's not that big of a deal.

Cheers, and good luck. I like the way you handled everything.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:18 PM   #899
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Jason now lashing out like a cornered little *****. LOLOLOLOL
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:18 PM   #900
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Unhappy Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I'm not giving any opinion on this matter, but I do think I can provide a hypothetical that will clarify what was the spirit of Bobo

Now, morally speaking, do you feel that you should pay up? That is what Bobo Fett wanted to know. Obviously whether or not there is sufficient evidence to say whether JY was freerolling is a whole different issue(and the point of this thread).
That's a good question. Understand I'm not spitting on the ground and scowling when I use the word welch, but that is what is going on isn't it?
I think that behavior is inherent to the gambling world. This situation has both serious aspects as well as humorous and involves all the emotions spanning so called 'gamblers honor' to smiling at the guy who just cheated you out of a dollar at 3 card monty (a silly thing to cheat at anyway since your odds as the dealer are better than any casino).

Morality is adjustable when it comes to 20k you don't have, and how much it would hurt to get it and give it to someone else you made bets with 18 months ago. And to consider your specific inquiry, I would also consider how mean the dudes were prior to making any moral choices.

I appreciate Druffs arguments, having followed him for many years on his various web sites, and of course have always enjoyed Bobo, even if it he got on my defensive side.

I guess the point I was making was, I always thought that welching on a bet was a pretty big deal for gamblers, hadn't seen that word in this discussion, and that's what this appears to be. Morality on your side or not, a famed gambler is going to have to live with that accusation for a long time. Otherwise I'm out.
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