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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #1076
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

What day/week/month did the boss cut ties with you/scumbag you?
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:09 PM   #1077
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Naive question - why does Jason owe money to the three bettors, including sheets? Surely it is the bookie that owes the money, and the bookie is who Chris (perhaps) owes money to. Jason is just a middle man who takes a cut?
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #1078
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Once again- I was never booking these bets- I had enough cred if I wanted action I could have bet whatever I wanted with no less than a dozen guys. I had previously vouched for someone that didn't make good on things...I'm a man and my word means something so instead of telling them they are out of luck I said I'd cover it
See, the bolded part above is why Jason is really coming off as super damn shady, and why I hate this "bookie" story a lot more than the freerolling itself.

The invention of this "bookie" allows Jason to place a layer between himself and the unpaid bets.

Without the bookie, Jason is just a freerolling scammer/a-hole who took way more action than he could cover.

With the bookie, Jason is a fine, stand-up gentleman, who is going above and beyond by covering the debts of a third-party he vouched for.

See the difference?

Same exact bets, but totally different image he can present with the addition of the "bookie" people were betting with.

This was no accident. It's exactly why the bookie was created -- so he could have an evil (yet unnamed) third party to blame when he couldn't cover the action he was booking. And then he can make himself look like a saint by paying ANYTHING that the "bookie" skipped out on, as opposed to looking like a shady POS for no-paying/slow-paying his own debts.

To me, this is MUCH more shady than your standard degen freeroll (which is also bad), because this added a level of premeditation to the whole thing.

The fact that he will answer ZERO questions about the bookie is a very bad sign, and highly indicative that the whole thing was a ruse to shield himself from responsibility.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:13 PM   #1079
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?

Jason, why are you refusing to name the bookie, even though he scammed you and everyone else betting through you?
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:13 PM   #1080
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAtR View Post
Naive question - why does Jason owe money to the three bettors, including sheets? Surely it is the bookie that owes the money, and the bookie is who Chris (perhaps) owes money to. Jason is just a middle man who takes a cut?
believe it or not that is a good question.
JY did you personally book the action with MM or were you acting as an agent for the bookie?
JY i heard you say it but I want to make sure I am clear, was it just the bookie that booked action with sheets, assanti rather than you personally?

That is a little weird that the losing bets was the bookie that left you holding the bag, and it was you personally that won big on MM. kinda unbelieveable to be exact.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #1081
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyland
I have been considering opening a restaurant myself, how has the process gone so far for you?
Don't do it!!!! 7 days a week 110+ hours its quite thankless work. Hard to be a friend, have a relationship, be a father, and run the business the right way... Quite stressful
Good to see that you answered this pressing question, but ignored all of the trivial ones about your financial solvency, the timeline, and the phony bookie.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:15 PM   #1082
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
See, the bolded part above is why Jason is really coming off as super damn shady, and why I hate this "bookie" story a lot more than the freerolling itself.

The invention of this "bookie" allows Jason to place a layer between himself and the unpaid bets.

Without the bookie, Jason is just a freerolling scammer/a-hole who took way more action than he could cover.

With the bookie, Jason is a fine, stand-up gentleman, who is going above and beyond by covering the debts of a third-party he vouched for.

See the difference?

Same exact bets, but totally different image he can present with the addition of the "bookie" people were betting with.

This was no accident. It's exactly why the bookie was created -- so he could have an evil (yet unnamed) third party to blame when he couldn't cover the action he was booking. And then he can make himself look like a saint by paying ANYTHING that the "bookie" skipped out on, as opposed to looking like a shady POS for no-paying/slow-paying his own debts.

To me, this is MUCH more shady than your standard degen freeroll (which is also bad), because this added a level of premeditation to the whole thing.

The fact that he will answer ZERO questions about the bookie is a very bad sign, and highly indicative that the whole thing was a ruse to shield himself from responsibility.

Your really just a pos fanboy who is throwing a temper tantrum because he isn't getting what he wants.

Your wild unfounded accusations are starting to become almost a personal attack-

You literally have 0 to go on so unless you have evidence which you don't shut the **** up- if you have a personal problem with me then so be it- but your accusations need to stop you piece of garbage
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:15 PM   #1083
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

random drooler here.

you say sheets and moneymaker both were betting with your boss. yet you make the call when sheets wants to pay his debt.

"sheets also lost a few k if I recall and offered to pay and I told him to hold onto it"

Is this normal practice? it looks like a slip of the tongue to me but I dont know anything about this buisness. It seems to me that the boss always wants to collect and wouldnt like you turning down people that want to pay up.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #1084
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordham View Post
believe it or not that is a good question.
JY did you personally book the action with MM or were you acting as an agent for the bookie?
JY i heard you say it but I want to make sure I am clear, was it just the bookie that booked action with sheets, assanti rather than you personally?

That is a little weird that the losing bets was the bookie that left you holding the bag, and it was you personally that won big on MM. kinda unbelieveable to be exact.
Me and Chris had a long history- assani was me personally as previously stated
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:18 PM   #1085
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Your really just a pos fanboy who is throwing a temper tantrum because he isn't getting what he wants.

Your wild unfounded accusations are starting to become almost a personal attack-

You literally have 0 to go on so unless you have evidence which you don't shut the **** up- if you have a personal problem with me then so be it- but your accusations need to stop you piece of garbage
The fact that you're refusing to answer this question is unreal. This is the only thing that can possibly save you and you're refusing to answer while firing bullets. I think its safe to assume that his "boss" never existed
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #1086
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPB383 View Post
The fact that you're refusing to answer this question is unreal. This is the only thing that can possibly save you and you're refusing to answer while firing bullets. I think its safe to assume that his "boss" never existed
+1
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #1087
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Once again- I was never booking these bets- I had enough cred if I wanted action I could have bet whatever I wanted with no less than a dozen guys. I had previously vouched for someone that didn't make good on things...I'm a man and my word means something so instead of telling them they are out of luck I said I'd cover it
Set me up with a dozen legitimate accounts. If that happens, I'll be at your place within 20 mins with enough cash to cover all your outstanding debts.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:21 PM   #1088
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I like both the solution of mm paying losses to a charity, or to a third party who distributes to those with claims against jy.

Mm admits to making the bets and never mentioned to jy that he thought he was being freerolled until just recently.

Jason obviously had money then or wouldn't have been able to dump it into a restaurant. Its not clear whether mm had the money then to cover the bets.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:21 PM   #1089
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Haven't read thread because of Halloween and my decision to not pay jason has been made as I know without doubt I was freerolled. That being said I do like the idea of paying money owed to a charity. I do need to pay for my stupid choices of betting sports period. I will let people owed by jy determine which charities get paid.
1. I would request that I be paid my $2022 first. I am not great financially lately, and the money means something to me. You say that you know "without doubt" you were being freerolled, but you were about to pay him before I came in here. Again I'll point out that if I just sit back and say nothing then you pay JY and he probably pays me....seems like I"m getting hugely f*cked over for doing the right thing if I have to sit back and watch all the money go to charity.

2. In a similar vein I think sheets should be paid first too, although I'll let him ask for that if he wants it.

3. If you want to donate the rest to charity and think me(or anyone else owed) should have a say in which charity then gimme a day or two to research and I"ll gladly pick one out that I support.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobel1 View Post
what if there are more people owed by JY. Why should the both here get paid and the others dont?(I know it sucks for assani and sheets, but it is what it is)
1. Chris was about to pay JY
2. I came in here and posted 100% honestly about my history with JY
3. I did this despite knowing that sitting back and letting MM pay might be optimal for me getting my money. Perhaps others owed by JY also would've done this had they known about the thread or perhaps they would've taken the cowardly way out and remained quiet instead of doing the right thing....we can't know for sure.
4. After seeing my post Chris jumps from being about to pay him to knowing "without doubt" that he shouldn't pay.


You may disagree that this means I should get paid, but at the very least point #3 definitely sets me apart from all the others JY may have owed.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:21 PM   #1090
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Me and Chris had a long history- assani was me personally as previously stated
I thought the 5k he won was the first bet with you and then he had a few bets lost which was his "15k credit limit". If you had a long history with him how far back does it go? Were both of you paying timely?
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:21 PM   #1091
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Your really just a pos fanboy who is throwing a temper tantrum because he isn't getting what he wants.

Your wild unfounded accusations are starting to become almost a personal attack-

You literally have 0 to go on so unless you have evidence which you don't shut the **** up- if you have a personal problem with me then so be it- but your accusations need to stop you piece of garbage
from what I know Kilowat is sortof a legend and one of the keyfigures in bringing down the superusers in the UB scandal. dont think hes a fanboy
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:23 PM   #1092
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Your really just a pos fanboy who is throwing a temper tantrum because he isn't getting what he wants.

Your wild unfounded accusations are starting to become almost a personal attack-

You literally have 0 to go on so unless you have evidence which you don't shut the **** up- if you have a personal problem with me then so be it- but your accusations need to stop you piece of garbage
If you want the "accusations" to stop, how about you stop avoiding the tough, obvious questions and give us some clear answers?

You are the one who brought this fight to the public, not me.

I am not a "fanboy" of any kind. I've been in poker longer than both you and Moneymaker. I've never gone easy on anyone based upon their fame in poker. I don't even watch televised poker because I'm a player of the game, not a fan of it. Save the "fanboy" crap for someone else.

I've asked you some good questions -- ones that have been repeatedly asked in this thread -- and you avoid them.

I have enough experience, both in life and in the poker community, to know that avoidance of major questions almost always means lying.

Prove me wrong.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #1093
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Assani, you seem like a decent guy, but let's be real here.

You brought out your $2022 debt for two reasons:

1) It pissed you off to see Jason blatantly lying about having no outstanding gambling debts in April, 2012, when you have been trying to collect just $2022 from him since then.

2) You felt this was the right time to "go public", as it would substantially increase your chance of getting paid. You probably realized that Jason would think he could add to his credibility by snap-paying the $2022 upon you bringing it up, and that he couldn't afford to just ignore your posts without killing his much bigger argument with Moneymaker. You also realized that $2022 was small enough to where he could probably come up with it, as opposed to something like $20k, which he obviously couldn't.

So you ran pretty much the optimal play regarding getting paid.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

But let's not treat this as if you sacrificed possible payment equity by coming out here at this point.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:30 PM   #1094
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
Also fwiw I reached out to assani days ago asking for multiple ways to send him a payment and he has still not given me any. Again I don't think it's cool mr all high and mighty doesn't take any responsibility. 18 months and I still have no place to send $ so if he doesn't give me somewhere to send how can I do that? Certain things seem to be big issues but when I literally tell him to get me somewhere to send $ and he doesn't give me one should just show his lax nature and prove my point again that it was both of our faults how that slipped through the cracks
Jason,

You should REALLY REALLY stop every trying to publicly make me look bad. Every single time you do it in this thread, I go back to dig up our prior conversations and it makes you look bad. I guess I'll do it again here...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
if you'd like to escrow, ill take this bet...if not-no prob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
I have Stars money and could escrow if you required it. I'm also staying in Toronto with aejones and perhaps chewy if he makes it back out here for SCOOP, both of whom I'm sure would vouch for me(as well as having nearly 40K posts and a perfect history of paying on a ton of bets made on here). I'll also be in Miami for WPT from 16th-25th, so if you happen to be there we could settle up in person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
i can only settle boa,wells,chase quickpay...do any of those options work for you?

if aejones or chewy vouches for bet, (we have never bet before) and u can settle one of those ways...we are booked


Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
yea, I'm sure Aaron will vouch for me.

I have BoA and can settle that way.


Whats the no vig line anyway? I'm just a very casual Caps fan who is currently staying in Canada(so much hockey coverage!!!) so I wanted a sweat.




So to summarize:

1. We made a bet in which you listed a few options to pay. You told me that if I could settle ONE of these ways then we are booked.

2. I responded and told you that I only had BoA, so I would be settling that way. Then I confirmed that we are booked.

3. We talked on the phone 2 days ago and I tried to get you to send me BoA.

4. You told me that you didn't have BoA, and I told you that because you don't have BoA after telling me that you could settle that way it would now take me a few days to find a 3rd party. This is entirely YOUR FAULT.

5. Its now been 2 days.....you didn't talk to me for 3 months after telling me that you were going to be taking care of it! How is 2 days anything in comparison to 2 months, especially when you consider that its your fault for not being able to pay up via BoA like you told me you could when we made the bet.


I think Jason has a legit psychological issue where he refuses to accept blame and immediately looks for reasons to blame others for spots he has gotten himself into. I've been as blameless as can be in this entire thing and hes tried to make me the villain multiple times. Its pretty ridiculous, but I really do think its a deep-rooted psychological thing. That makes sense in the context of some good people(like Charder) coming in here and saying JY has always seems like a good guy in person- hes probably someone who tries to be a good dude, but he has this extremely poor way about objectively analyzing his own actions and he always deflects blame. It allows him to justify his own shady behavior when in reality he wants to be a good person. At least thats my read, could be way off....

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 11-01-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #1095
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

@ Kilowatt

Actually AE Jones brought up the Assani debt ITT.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #1096
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Regarding Chris donating the $20k to charity:

I don't understand it.

Chris, aren't you broke? Where is the $20k going to come from?

Honesty, as much as I like the idea of a worthy charity getting money from this whole mess, that isn't the right play here.

When you are broke and have a wife to support, you shouldn't be shipping your case funds off to charity. Charity should be given by those who are financially secure, and can afford it. You can't.

You might think that $20k to charity might be +EV in the long run for your reputation, but it won't be. The damage has already been done here. Those reading the thread will likely never stake you or bet with you ever again. Those unaware of the thread will continue with you, business as usual, as if this never happened. Honestly, the time to stop this from a PR standpoint passed a long time ago.

The smartest play here is to stand firm on the fact that Jason was scamming you, and to keep pressing him to name that bookie. Nobody intelligent will blame you for withholding payment until that happens.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #1097
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I've proven everything that's been asked- your not getting a ****ing name of anyone get over it
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:33 PM   #1098
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
@ Kilowatt

Actually AE Jones brought up the Assani debt ITT.
Yes, AE Jones probably saw it first, commented on it, and told his friend Assani.

Assani chose to come out for the reasons I already stated.

Again, I do NOT blame Assani for this, nor do I think his reasons for posting here are bad.

However, he is not doing Chris a favor by coming out here. He is calling out someone who has scammed/slow-paid him, and also increasing his chances of getting a $2k debt to him paid.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #1099
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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I've proven everything that's been asked- your not getting a ****ing name of anyone get over it
How have you "proven" anything about this bookie?

You haven't answered a single question about it, aside from saying, "Yes there was a bookie."

You haven't provided a SHRED of evidence that he exists.

You won't even explain WHY you won't provide this evidence, despite the fact that he scammed you and others.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #1100
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

no disrespect Assani, but MM is under no obligation to give you the money. If i were you I would PM Chris to see if he is willing to do you a FAVOR/COURTESY since you did him the FAVOR/COURTESY of posting in here when you didnt have to. Kinda a I helped you can you look out for me kinda thing, but to post in here and try to get people to agree with you to pressure MM to pay you is not a good idea.

your language has changed from "I am just throwing the idea out there for me to get payed by MM" to "I would request that I be paid my $2022 first. I am not great financially lately, and the money means something to me".

I got alot of respect for you, but I can sense the next step being you bashing or doing something worse when MM gives the money to charity and you dont get paid.
Stop while you are ahead, and PM Chris and see if he is willing. If not it ends there.
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