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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #76
madhusudana
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
for the record: ive been staying on top of this for the past 1.5 years to not collect a single cent for myself- its only to pay out people that are owed.
So why were you betting in the first place if you owed people money? How were you gonna pay Chris? He sure has a point.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #77
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhusudana View Post
So why were you betting in the first place if you owed people money? How were you gonna pay Chris? He sure has a point.
im not gonna respond to every dumb question or from complete randoms that i have no clue who you are- so this will be the only time that happens...


i wasnt betting- you probably cant understand that...

he lost this money in like march/april of 2012

people won $ in october/november of 2012
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:53 PM   #78
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly Caveat View Post
Chris,

How did these guys know that you owed Jason money?
Chris told them - he says so in the post you quoted. Presumably they called Chris to see if he was in the same boat as they were - i.e. owed money.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #79
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

CM is still a PS sponsored pro?

I honestly did not know he was still a part of their team.

This is just even more of a mess now. As a few have pointed out already, I am sure PS would not be too pleased with this and especially now that its out on 2p2 for all of us to see.

I will follow this thread just because I am curious to see what all of the 'facts' are between the two sides as they come out and see if more people 'in the know' step forward to validate the claims of one side or another.

So far this thread started off with CM owing money, then going to pay it to someone else that was owed but now has gone on record saying he will pay no one.

That was a quick couple hours.

Again, what an fn mess.

Just commented in another thread about how people may just be turned off watching poker on television because the people/pros/characters that they watch on television become 'real' when news gets out about shady dealings, rigged poker sites, etc etc.

Stories like this sure do not help to make the scene any better.

Last edited by All Hail Circe; 10-24-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #80
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkeD View Post
Chris told them - he says so in the post you quoted. Presumably they called Chris to see if he was in the same boat as they were - i.e. owed money.
Ah, I see. Have these guys given their sides of it anywhere?
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #81
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Chris, starting a thread here and after one post writing "this is my last post" is pretty ridiculous. Don't make a thread if you don't want opinions or a discussion. Also nice try on the reverse free roll! Pay your debt and move on from this. Being a sponsored pro and letting it get this far is embarrassing.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #82
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
for the record: ive been staying on top of this for the past 1.5 years to not collect a single cent for myself- its only to pay out people that are owed.
Define "staying on top of this"? Sounds like you stayed on top of this about as well as EDog stayed on top of paying Coltranedog. Or Howard Lederer working 24/7 until every player at Full Tilt got their money? All of you that owe money or have money owed to you all pretend like you work 80 hours a week trying to settle all debts. It's more like you make a call once every two weeks and drift along as nothing gets done for a year or more.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #83
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I am an interested party in this situation, so I am not completely unbiased to the outcome, but if adding some facts will help, here they are:


About 2 years ago (not 100% sure of the timeline here please forgive that) I wanted to put some sports bets in, as I had a friend who said he knew what he was doing (sigh lol I know i know its impossible whatever but I trust him). Having no idea in this day and age how to go about getting bookies etc, I reached out to someone on 2_2 and he told me to contact Jason, as he did business with people and could hook me up or whatever ....

Jason had a relationship of some kind with a website which took the action...I got a user id etc and Jason handled the money flows....seemingly standard of an agent etc. Well one day my account was frozen after a few weeks of winning, and I was wondering why it was? Jason was unsure and said he would find out , and told me that the "boss" or..."the site" or whatever, didn't want the action anymore, as apparently they suspected that my action, which did involve some offbeat props etc, was not something they wanted to take.

I said sigh ok whatever, and asked to settle up with what was owed. Jason put me off for a week or 2 but he told me he was in the hospital for knee surgery and he would take care of it soon. I am not going to challenge Jason's word on that...who would lie about that? So I was patient and a week later or so he shipped me online money or whatever...Now that I think about it , it was lock money he sent me loldksjhfsdkfdhkfhsad but ok ok thats fine lol.

Fast forward a year and I reached out to Jason and asked if maybe his guys wanted action again? He told me he would check, and a day later he said sure no problem, and reopened my account. I ran hot again and asked to get paid.

Jason said he would meet me at his bar, or ship money into my boa ...whatever I wanted, the day after he collects from his "guy" which was supposed to be the following tues. I followed up and Jason told me that the guy was a no show, for unknown reasons. Coincidentally, or perhaps not. this was the time when a whole bunch of bookies got arrested, so Jason speculated it was because of this.

A few weeks passed, and eventually Jason told me essentially the same story posted in this thread....the summary being that Chris owed him alot of money, that his bookie left him in the cold, and he couldn't pay what I was owed until Chris paid. He told me straight out that I was 1090% going to get paid, but I would have to be patient, and it would certainly accelerate the process if Chris would pay.

I did reach out to Chris, really just to confirm that Jason's story wasn't BS...Nothing personal against Jason...I just didnt know him very well and I have been around the block, so to speak, and heard alot of stories in my day......I didn't expect or ask Chris to pay me money directly, although I certainly would have accepted that as a result obviously. Chris basically told me exactly what he ended up posting in here, and told me that he was not sure what he was going to do.

I have followed up with Jason every month or so since this time, and he assures me that I am getting paid eventually, and again stresses that Chris's payment drives most of the results here , although, Jason HAS paid me some portion of what I was owed. It certainly is not alot, and certainly does not make up for all of this aggravation, but it certainly demonstrates, to me at least, that Jason for his part wants to do the right thing by everyone.

I also understand that Chris feels victimized in a way, as if he were not famous etc, he would not be pressured in this way to pay, even if he feels he shouldn't due to being freerolled...which may or may not be justified..., due to fear or reputation bashing etc

I actually like both of them, so I really don't want to take "sides" here. I just kind of want to get paid lol.

Hope this helps.


sheets (switzerland)

Last edited by sheetsworld; 10-24-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:24 PM   #84
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

i think this played out exactly as it should have
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:28 PM   #85
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

To both of you: Sob stories about how you've been scammed in the past don't mean squat. Sorry you made bad business and/or life decisions. Don't use them to curry any sort of favor here. Just makes you look weak and desperate.

To CM: Pay your debts, dood. You don't get to claim any moral high ground by speculating about what might have happened had you won. What, now everyone you want action with is going to have to ask himself "Hm, in addition to the game we're betting on, I need to factor in the odds associated with the Chris thinking I'm good for the money if he wins??? That's not how this works, bud.

To JY: Sounds like you owe some money. Pay it. You don't get to concede that you haven't paid your debts, but claim any moral high ground by saying "I’ve made arrangements with the people that are owed, been in constant contact with them the entire time, inviting them to come speak to me personally in NY." You can rationalize it to yourself that way, but you wagered with money you didn't have (or vouched for people with money you didn't have, same thing.) Whatever restaurant you're choosing to flush your money doesn't mean squat in this situation.

Verdict. Sounds like you deserve each other. CM doesn't pay debt / reverse-freerolls based on what he thinks would have happened. JY bets with money (or "vouches" for others, which is the same thing) that he doesn't have. Neither one of you is really winnings any good-guy points here...you probably succeeded in mutual-assured reputation destruction though.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:28 PM   #86
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

(switzerland) ?

Really Sheets? lol that's cool...
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #87
sheetsworld
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMoney View Post
(switzerland) ?

Really Sheets? lol that's cool...
lol
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #88
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheetsworld View Post

sheets (switzerland)
Quote:
he lost this money in like march/april of 2012

people won $ in october/november of 2012
Does October/November sound accurate?
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:36 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMoney View Post
(switzerland) ?

Really Sheets? lol that's cool...
Neutralaments imo
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #90
sheetsworld
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Does October/November sound accurate?
Yes actually the second time around , October 12 to be exact was when my account was relaunched and money won oct-nov.

Wow....actually 1 year exactly! Was supposed to collect 10/24/2012

Last edited by sheetsworld; 10-24-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:56 PM   #91
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

sheets got scammed by Jason and the bookie, Chris got lucky not to be. sheets is now freerolling that Jason will somehow pay him back. Jason probably won't, but stranger things have happened, maybe he'll bink some Borgata tournament, and do the best thing he can do by paying off his debts.

Jason has shown himself to be insolvent, so it's very likely he was freerolling Chris. If he can't pay sheets when Chris lost, how could he have paid Chris if Chris won?

Quote:
he lost this money in like march/april of 2012

people won $ in october/november of 2012
No, you took some of Chris' action in early 2012, and then some of sheets' action in late 2012. Chris didn't lose money when you couldn't pay him if he had won. sheets didn't win money when you couldn't pay him if he had won. Any money you took you should pay back, I don't think you owe anything they won betting assuming you were just an agent vouching for someone else.

Last edited by Scary_Tiger; 10-24-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:59 PM   #92
All Hail Circe
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Nice to see Sheetsworld come forward.

If his story can be validated by Jason, then I do not see why any of the three involved would have a problem with CM paying Sheets.

If Jason is waiting for CM in order to pay Sheets, then this seems fairly simple.

Not sure of the figures but at least it would be a start in the right direction.

Sheets wants what is owed to him. Jason wants to have the money to be able to do what is right in paying back people he owes once he gets some money from CM and CM was going to do something like this anyway from the get go, so here we are.

Win, win, win?

btw Sheets...you seem like you know what you are doing when it comes to Sportsbetting :P
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:01 PM   #93
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I'm not saying that this Jason guy doesn't sound shady, but you sound equally shady in this tbh. "I thought i'd just wait a few months to see how it played out". Wait for what? You're literally not waiting for anything during this time, only stalling.

You should have just paid HIM (why anyone else?) straight away. You'll never know if he was freerolling you, but it's incredibly hypocritical to do the same back to him due only to your own suspicions.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:01 PM   #94
All Hail Circe
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
If he can't pay sheets when Chris lost, how could he have paid Chris if Chris won?
Darn it all, just when I think we have a solution, you bring this up.

Good point. Back to what came first " The Chicken or the Egg "

Then again we are in this " Would/could he have paid " situation.

I guess bottom line is CM made a bet, he lost and he should pay like many have said from the very start. You cannot just make a bet and then say afterward " well, had I won, you MAY NOT have paid me, so no, I owe you nothing. " That just seems way off base.

I will just stay out of this now and wait to see how it all settles because I can only give my opinions and no matter what I say, it will not help resolve this.

Once again, best of luck to all.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #95
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Chris, you are doing the right thing. Help out the scammed rather than reward the scammer.

Good luck sir.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:13 PM   #96
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Yeah this one is tough. Though the link in OP links right back to the OP.....


If sheets is owed by Jason then that would add validity to Dunlap not paying as it looks like if he had won then both sheets and moneymaker are both out here right? How is that not a freeroll? Seems like 100% of the time if CM wins he never has his winnings right now, right? Relying on other debtors to pay off your own debts obv is -life/money ev.

Seems like Jason was trying to be honest but got into a rly bad spot and got in over his head a bit for w/e reason.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #97
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Hail Circe View Post
Darn it all, just when I think we have a solution, you bring this up.

Good point. Back to what came first " The Chicken or the Egg "

Then again we are in this " Would/could he have paid " situation.
Jason took sheets' action and evidently vouched with money he didn't have. We have no reason to believe he didn't do the same to Chris.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:21 PM   #98
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

So Jason owes money and refuses to pay.
Jason outs Chris as a scammer because he owes money and refuses to pay.

Simple enough.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:28 PM   #99
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Jason - Is it OK if Chris pays Sheets to settle that amount of his debt to you?

If yes then it is harder to argue that Chris was being freerolled.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #100
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ, De 'Berg! View Post
If you had an uncollected but credited deposit from FTP outstanding (they were doing this near the end, crediting players' accounts without actually taking the money as they had payment processor problems) would you pay them?

Not a chance.

I side with Moneymaker here. If the guy's scamming other people, I ain't giving him ****.

Chris, if these other people have proof that Jason owes them money, pay them a portion of what you owe Jason based on how much Jason owes them IMO.
If the people that won $ off of Jason occurred BEFORE the MM Bet with Jason then yes, MM may have been freerolled scammed however if it turns out that the people that Jason owes $ to came AFTER he won the bet with MM then MM should pay up.

but it seems we don't have any confirmed facts here so I can't give (or anyone else ITT not involve) can really give an informed opinion on who's in the wrong, perhaps if the other parties come forward and give a timeline of events we might know something (that is if they even want to come forward.)
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