3-4 25s daily and 2 5/10s. 2-5 action blows, 5/10 is awesome. They'll also spread a 5/10 round and round or 10/25 (although buyins are shallow at the start) at least twice a week.

I think the Hard Rock staff is great, as far as the brushes and dealers go. Now, as for the waitresses, I think they're small potatoes. If you don't like their attitude, then don't tip them. Simple.

Well said.

Hi:
I am going to be there on sunday and tuesday nights, does anyone know if the usual tourneys will still go on given that the wpt lucky hearts series will be ongoing? I think on sounday there is a reentry but on tuesday the main event is played and am not sure how this will affect the regular tourneys. i assume that there will be plenty of cash tables going but wait lists will be long?? Any info will be apreciated. Should i just stay away since i am a low limit tourney/cash player?

Lucky hearts series is at Hollywood Hard Rock.

Is there a PLO interest list and if so how many plyrs are on there. I want to play PLO today

Duh I am a moron. Worng thread sorry guys.

When do they usually release info on what the next month's promotion/s is/are going to be? This Feb. promo is a major dud, im going to wait until March to play again most likely.

I don't know all the details yet but march will mostly be promos for tournament players.
Bigger guarantees and some other stuff but nothing is official yet.

Wow. Back-to-back month of terrible promos. I feel like they are trying to drive my business away at this point...

Mr K, it's not that they are trying to drive you away, IMO they don't really care one way or another. Remember Jack of Rock, LOL? He (actually they from what I've heard) conveniently showed up around WPT time to promote, where is Jack now?

Please read the HR Hollywood thread and you will see that the poker room manager, William Mason, is very active in the HHR thread and addresses player questions and concerns on a regular basis. It is obvious that Mr. Mason cares about his customers and takes the time to listen and provide generally thoughtful responses or solutions. Plus HHR has well thought out promotions that seem to cater to all tastes, i.e. something for regular grinders (gift cards), something for casual players (high hands) and something for tournament players (free rolls)! (No BBJ is a stroke of genius, better to spread the confiscated funds around in the form of promotion)

There are a number of issues with THR that have been discussed here, but Jack of Hiding Under the Rock doesn't seem interested in addressing customer concerns and comments. Hard to believe that these two rooms are owned by the same company...

+1

I hope we see a reply...

I'm thinking of going up there tonight. I'm wondering if it will be packed cuz of the fair or less busy cuz of the fair

The main issue is quite frankley and unfortunately they don't have to care...at all. There is pretty much ZERO competition in Tampa that can compete with an establishment the magnitude of the HardRock and im pretty sure they know it.

Tampa is a major hub and travel destination and the Seminoles have the only game in town. They have a COMPLETE monopoly over the gambling (legal) industry under the guise of "Reservation."

If the FL laws ever change and we get MGM's and the like, you can bet your ass that the THR will be hiring a TEAM of marketing professionals and customer service will be at an all time high. As far as the manager always answering concerns at the Hollywood poker room...its just him personally. The guy obviously takes pride in who he is and what he does. It isnt at the behest of the Seminoles, he just personally wants to be a better person and take pride in his job. My hats off to William Mason and his level of customer service. Hes obviously a high quality individual.

...and Jack of Rock? Ive been a frequent customer of the THR and 2+2 for years...Never heard of him. What does that tell you. lol!

since when did you start playing hands?

I get your point. You're spot on. I guess it's not that I'm not supposed to be surprised at this point, but I still am.

I do subscribe to the Hollywood thread. I love that Mr. Mason's responses are straight to the point, addressing each question. Sometimes it may not be the answer you want, but at least it's there. I also agree that their promos seem to offer appeal to all sorts/types of players. Raking the extra dollar helps, and so does the elimination of the BBJ. But at the same time, it's clear that they've also made a true effort into keeping players happy/motivated to play there.

I'm not trying to pile on the negativity with regard to the Hard Rock, but I felt that I should share a recent incident.

The following incident happened this past Wednesday (2/8/2012) at 4PM. The table was $2-5. Play was fairly aggressive.

Player 6 was UTG. She is a really old lady who plays $2-5. She has to be at least 85. She min-raises to $10. A few people call, including seat 2. He's a middle-aged Korean man. Plays semi-regularly. Is not all that strong in English, but fully understands the rules of poker. I did not, so I wasn't watching the flop carefully at this point. A believe that there was a small bet from UTG called by seat 2. I think that they were heads up to the turn. On the turn seat 6 open shoved all-in for $124. It was now up to seat 2. No one else was left in the hand. The board was Q-J-10-6? Seat 2 thought about his decision for about 30-45 seconds. During this time I started to retrace the hand. My guess is that the rest of the table started to as well. After all, how often does an 85 year old shove all-in? I thought that she had Ace-King. I'm guessing that's what seat 2 was thinking she had as well.

In any case, the guy in seat 2 finally called. The dealer dealt the Ace of spades on the river. The board now read Q-10-J-6?-A. Both players opened their hands within a few seconds. I expect the dealer was looking for a King to complete the straight for the winning hand. Player two table Q-10 directly over the betting line, face-up. The dealer announced "2 pair. Queens and 10s." Player 6 tabled JJ. The dealer announced set of jacks.

Now, here is where things got trickly. The dealer then pushed the chips toward seat 6. As seat 6 started to reach for the chips, the pair of jacks were brought/pushed into the board. As this was happening (my guess is 5-10 seconds had passed), the player in seat 2 said "flush. Flush." The dealer and everyone else looked back at him. He had Q-10 of spades. The board and the pair of jacks were mucked together, but still face up. The dealer spread the 7 cards back out, and there were 3 spades there, one of which was jack. Was the jack of spades on the flop, or was it in her hand? To be honest, I didn't notice. Nobody else seemed to either. The dealer did the correct thing, and called the floor over right away. While he MAY have made an error, he handled everything perfectly, in my opinion. The floor was a part-time supervisor. He is usually a dealer. We'll call him "E" The dealer recounted what had occurred. The supervisor listened, and said that the pot had been awarded, and that seat 6 had won the hand. The pot was about $375. Not huge, but enough to be upset about if you had lost. Seat 2 repeated that he had a flush. Seat 6 didn't say much. I don't think she knew for sure what Jacks she was holding. I asked to go to the cameras. This request was refused. I repeated my request. I told the floor that it was unfair for a player to potentially lose a pot due to dealer error. He tabled his cards correctly. He should not lose a pot if the dealer mis-read the board. My request was denied. I insisted. I told him that if I was in the other players position, I would insist on using the cameras to make sure the pot was awarded correctly. He again refused. I asked what the point of having the cameras is, if you're not going to use them? The supervisor informed seat 2 that he has lost the hand. The player in seat 2 asked for another supervisor. (Keep in mind that he is a part-time supervisor, and this was a very fair request). The supervisor told him no. Seat 2 still had his cards in front of him in his hands. The supervisor told him to muck his hand. He refused. The supervisor told him that if he did not muck his hand, he would be kicked out. Keep in mind, the guy had said about 5 words at this point. The player gave back his cards, and the hand was over.

After the hand, I ended up speaking with the Scottish supervisor. In my opinion, he is great at his job. He took the time to give an explanation after he had heard from "E" and later from me. I took away a few main points from this:

1. The cameras at the Hard Rock are property wide. That means that the cameras in the poker room are of course linked to the cameras throughout the casino. The purpose of those cameras is not to settle player disputes. There are some exceptions where the cameras may be used. In the case of this particular hand, if more players had insisted that there was a flush, they would have tried to ask for a camera review. The major problem with this is that it relies on the table to A)pay attention and B)care about who won the pot.

2. The dealer made a mistake during the hand. He correctly announced both hands after they were tabled. Next, he should have mucked the Q-10, and THEN pushed the pot to the set of jacks.

3. The supervisor made a mistake in threatening to kick out the player in seat 2 if he did not muck his hand.

4. The supervisor should have asked for/gone to get an appeal after the player requested one.


I think that two things really bother me about this hand. The first is the attitude of the supervisor. He clearly didn't care, and just wanted the matter over. He refused to get another supervisor, and was rude to the players. The second is the Hard Rock camera rule. I understand that trying to get a camera review from the poker room to settle a hand is a grey area for the staff. It's difficult. It's time consuming. If you do it often, more people might ask for it. BUT, I feel like if the pot was a few thousand dollars, instead of $375 in the back room, then the cameras would be used. To some people $375 isn't much money. To others it's a small fortune. It shouldn't matter what amount is in the pot. Get it right. Poker players and staff tend to forget about the true value of money/chips far too often. It's that dismissive attitude from the staff that really irritates me.

I would say that well over 50% of the dealers at HR do not follow proper procedure at showdown/pushing the pot. They do not kill the losing hand before pushing the pot.
There are alot of other things they do not follow procedure on also.

I certainly agree that there are at times issues with dealer procedures and floor decisions at the THR. I'm a 2/5NL reg; in fact, I think I may have ended up at that table later, as I remember playing with a very old lady who talked about running casinos in CA back in the day.

But I think the right person probably got the pot. Since the Q10 in the guy's hand were spades, then the J on the flop, as well as the 6 on the turn would have had to have been spades for him to hit the flush on the river. So if the guy is tanking for 30 seconds, and the whole table is also analyzing the hand, it's impossible for me to think that the guy, and the rest of the table, would not realize there was a flush draw on the turn. Of course the guy with Q10 would have factored that into his decision. In fact, if he put the old lady on AK, then he would have called hoping for either a spade, or a FH to win.

So when the dealer called his hand out first as 2 pair, I think he would have immediately said flush. There was plenty of time between the dealer calling out the set of Js, and pushing the pot, to catch that before all the cards got mixed up. And given the general level of attention paid at the 2/5 games there, I'd be very surprised if there was a flush draw on the turn, and no other player at the table realized it and spoke up. It really doesn't add up to me.

As far as getting another supervisor, I have mixed feelings on that. I don't know if there is a supervisor chain of command for decisions. If you call for a supervisor, and get a decision, house rules say that's final. That's also why I don't have a problem with the supervisor telling the guy to muck his cards or he will have to leave. You can't let a player hold up the game every time someone doesn't like a floor ruling.

All that said, there is a friendly, polite way to do it, and a rude, insulting way to do it. I'm sure as the OP stated, this time it probably wasn't the polite way.

Good points. I guess the only thing to note is that the player, while a semi-regular has made some head scratching decisions before. He might have tanked with a flush draw and 2-pair. Might of. I think that's far more likely that no flush existed. You're right. Very unlikely. Someone else should have noticed it if it was there. Personally, I was thinking about my hand, and their possible hands, and I didn't see it. I was thinking about straights and pair-straight combos.

As for the supervisor appeal...I disagree. Here's an example. Playing $2-5. Game is deep. I'm in the BB with 9-10suited. UTG raises to $35. He's a rock. KK or AA. Middle position shoves for $63. I call. UTG goes all-in. (Like 1.2 or 1.3K. I have a similar stack) Action is to me. I claim that the player cannot go all-in. The dealer claims that it is a legal raise. I ask for the floor. The floor claims that the $63 all-in was more than 50% of the original raise so betting is opened. I disagree. Meanwhile, it was become super clear that UTG has a monster! I want a flop for sure now. I count out the chips for the supervisor, showing $5 + $30 raise. All-in is $5+$30+$28. The $28 is less than the original $30 raise. The floor disagrees with me. I appeal for another floor. After much debate another floor comes over. The situation is explained. Action was not re-opened. I get the proper ruling.

While that was going on, I actually started to second guess myself. Did I miscalculate this? No. A second supervisor should come as a second set of eyes. I would rather get a proper ruling than a speedy ruling.

50% is for limit games, NL has to be 100% of previous raise to re-open as you stated.
This is the kind of thing that is common at HR tho. Supervisors and dealers are not on the same page on rules. I could name close to a dozen things that the dealers do not do all the same way. And I mean rules that are clear to real poker players and real poker rooms across the country.

If they actually read this forum and cared I would list the things and they could easily print it out and let all the supervisors and dealers sign off that they understand these rules.

I see your point, too. I guess what I was wondering about is if there is some sort of hierarchy to the supervisors working a given shift. For example, if you don't agree with supervisor "A"'s ruling, is supervisor "B" a higher up with the authority to overrule "A"? Or is it just trying to get a second opinion from equals? But then if the two don't agree, do you get a third supervisor to break the tie?

With your example, it's a little easier because there is an actual rule that applies. With judgment calls like the OP, I was just wondering what would make one supervisor's judgment higher than another.

But we've all seen inconsistent knowledge/application of their own house rules many times.

You would figure the part time supervisors would give a **** about the players and take the time to make correct decisions so they can get out of the box and just wear a permanent jacket, but most of them are just jokesters. I dislike most of the supers with the exception of parttime supers T(guy), and S (girl) and regulars scottish dude, "B" and 2nd in charge Lue who is just under Henry who is at the top of all the supers.

There is definitely a hierarchy to the supervisors at Hard Rock. I think that it would be +EV for you to find out. Next time we play, we can talk names. As far as I can tell, the supervisors fall into 2 or 3 categories.

1. The lowest level. These are primary dealers who wear the suit once and a while when needed. If you disagree with their decision, make sure to ask for another supervisor. The good ones at this level will immediately know if something is over their head and will get help. The bad ones will just try to sweep the situation under the rug. The supervisor mentioned in the earlier story falls under this category.

2/3. The full-time supervisors. The full-time guys (and girls) carry more weight than the dealer-supervisors. However, there is a clear hierarchy here as well. Make sure you find out who the good ones are/ones with real authority and try to get them for rulings. The Scottish fellow is the best by far, and is usually the top dog on the floor. If you're looking to get rid of a rude player/etiquette problem get "K" the older lady.

4. "H" who is supposed to be in charge of the room. He appeared a couple of times during the WPT, but is rarely seen. I'm sure he understands the poker room despite the fact that he's almost never there...

Dealers make more than the supervisors. It used to be a blow out back in the $2 straight betting days when it was 100% rec players that over tipped and a bunch of $200, $500 and $1000 sit n goes going that they made good $'s on.

Dealers still make more but its alot closer now after regular poker has come and the newness has worn off.

I am guessing the reason you see some dealers picking up a few floor shifts a week is for experience on resume and dealing is incredibly monotonous.
I doubt they would want to floor full time because of pay cut.