The problem with SOSA and IWTSTH is that they were originally enacted for collusion, not "information gathering". I personally think it is terrible etiquette to ask for either SOSA or IWTSTH unless you have a strong feeling there is collusion, and even then, you should be able to argue your case for collusion based on a number of factors before any cards are shown.

[x]Auto-muck losing hand

If I ever play with you then I know how to get you on monkey tilt. lol
I agree with horrible etiquette on IWTSTH but I almost 100% ask to see on SOSA because its rude to show your neigbor and fold. Either show the table or muck it like your supposed to.

Why should a few people on that end of the table gain info that the rest of us don't get. If your going to open the door by showing your buddy and there is the smallest part of me that wants to see what it was then I ask.

And I'm afraid things don't get any better next month. My sources managed to get advance notice of the April promos, which are as follows:

Tues-Fri, 8am-6pm: All quads pay $100, except 6's and 8's, which pay $75. Straight flushes get $125, but only qualify if the high card is even (Q and K are evens) and the dealer is left-handed.

Sat-Mon, 1:15pm-10:34pm: All quads (except 4's and J's, which are ineligible) pay $84, and straight flushes above 9-high pay $92.50, unless there were more than 3 players at showdown, which voids everything. Also, only the blue deck is eligible for any of these.

All other times: The first 6 people to hit quad 7's or better get a Hard Rock sleeveless half-shirt. After that, all quads win two free empanadas from the food court, and straight flushes that contain a 6 win a copy of Abba's Greatest Hits on 8 track (red deck only).

Mainly because poker is just a game to the people doing it, not a source of income. Why enforce a rule that isn't for that intended purpose, and put the spotlight on someone that is obviously an inferior player. You and I know not to show because it would be giving away info, but they are like "look at this hand, I got really lucky". Don't alienate the weaker players and make them feel like they can't have fun, after all, that is what they are there for.

That sound better than the March promo. lol

Yea, I get what your saying but I don't think they care if you ask to see after they show their buddy. And if its early on in the session it could be valuable info. Like I said, I never do IWTSTH and I get on tilt when someone does it to me because that is horrible etiquette.

Today I was playing and after a raise pre flop a guy with pocket AA shoved the flop, and a guy called with a flush draw, poor odds because was way over pot sized bet. The guy hits his flush and the guy next to me who was not in the hand or not friends with anyone at table, says loudly YESSSS, as the flush came in to bust the AA.

I asked him why he was happy and he was like why not. In other words he was just a fish that likes to see people suck out with flushes and bad calls.
I did have to stop myself from giving a speech about several things that was wrong with that, after quickly realizing that he was just a fish and I should shut up.

What about royals ? Lol

Too funny! My advice is to keep on complaining. I suspect that my negative attitude was the sole reason that I was rewarded with 4 free drink coupons for the month of March. They arrived in my mailbox today. Score!

hi guys. i hope someone can answer this for me because i really need to know: does tampa hard rock offer safe deposit boxes?

i searched through the thread but couldn't find anything definitive except one guy claiming they did and a few people claiming they didn't, but this was from a while ago

No

Yea, while I have no use for the drink coupons, I was impressed that they actually mailed out a letter telling what the promo was going to be.
It even showed what my poker comp balance is, which I know anyway but it was a like $500 more than it really is. I wish that was the case.

FAQ was added a few days ago. The answer is there.

Photoshopping more free drink coupons as we speak lol

pretty much the same with me

ah sorry, searched the thread for "deposit box" so it didn't come up and my dumb ass failed to take note of the added FAQ. thank you, and thank you 33 Big Blinds

+2

I ask nearly every time. If those players next to the "exposer" get the information to use against the happy-go-lucky fish, then it's clearly not fair to those of us on the other side of the table. His neighbors have a tactical advantage, and I view it as a detriment to my bottom line. It's a friendly game, but...rules are in place for a reason, and all I'm trying to do when I ask for SOSA is to get our fish to stop showing, and keep the game fair.

I agree to keep the fish happy, but usually they want everyone to see how "almost lucky" they got and don't mind when their cards are shown. I've never had a player get angry when I've requested SOSA.

IWTSTH - never asked, hopefully never will. People that do (for info) piss me off.

My guess is the $amount is the total amount that you've earned maybe? Mine is about $900 more than I have as a balance, which sounds about right to me.

Me too.. Fresh baked bread too? Should be pretty awesome. Opening a new bar as well.

Your statement above is not completely accurate:

IWTSTH was originally, and still is under RROP, enacted for collusion, not information gathering, as you say.
However, SOSA has always been enacted to prevent an unfair advantage, not for collusion.
I agree with this in principle, but only in regards to IWTSTH. I think the standard procedures should be:

If a dealer sees a player show his cards (even if folded before the river), the hand should automatically be shown by the dealer to the whole table after showdown. (SOSA)

If the dealer doesn't see it but another player asks after showdown to see a hand that was shown, if the player admits his hand was shown the dealer must show the hand to the rest of the table after showdown. (SOSA)

If a player asks to see a hand after showdown which was not shown to any player, the floor is called to expose the hand and determine if there was any collusion. (IWTSTH)

They changed that rule at The Isle(pompano) and made it like you say, where the floor must be called each time for IWTSTH and that put a stop to the abuse.

I don't play at THR as much as you guys but I have noticed abuse of IWTSTH on more than one occassion, and I'm like you Ron, it tilts the bejudas out of me!

A few weeks ago I was playing 1-3 at THR (which I rarely play there, only table I could get on) and not in the hand when a younger guy shoved the river on an AKT72 board with a possible heart flush. The original raiser, who was an older and pretty decent player, thought for a while and then folded AK face up. The younger guy mucked but before the dealer dumped the hand into the muck, another older guy who was not in the hand then said IWTSTH. Dealer turns over the hand, and young guy has AT (not important). Another player and myself both asked the guy who requested IWTSTH did he suspect collusion between the players in the hand and he said "no". We then told him it was improper to invoke IWTSTH and his reply was that it was within his rights and he wanted information. The other player who had questioned this guy told him that this was a breach of etiquette and really bad manners, and the guy said I don't care, I can do this any time I want to get information...We both told him that if he did the same to us that we would call the floor and hold up the game, he got pissed and the game was a lot less friendly from there on. Another player at the table who was not in the hand then started arguing for the player who improperly used IWTSTH saying that since it was legal it was perfectly alright. I told this guy (who was not in the hand) that IMO this was akin to angle shooting and was really bad for the game. He then argued with me and others, was a total mess!

There seems to be an element that doesn't understand that the purpose of the rule is to detect collusion and when educated about the rule they generally change their tune. However there is a certain element that intentionally abuses this rule to get information. This is what really gets me, I've never invoked IWTSTH as the whole game is about information...

My question is, if you are at a table where the rule is being abused, do you call the floor to complain and call out the abuser? I've seen this done and I've seen floors take away IWTSTH privileges from players who were abusing the rule, although this was not at THR. Calling the floor holds up the game and may turn a friendly game into a contentious one, but is it worth it in your guys' opinions to do this at THR?

Ummm that's not how it works lol. When everyone folds you don't get to ask what the guy had.
Also, while I never do it.... It's not even close to the same thing as angle shooting imo.

What if a player to your immediate right or left looks at your cards without your permission? By your definition SOSA can be used. I have seen this where a player is making a decision, looking at his cards for an extended period of time, and someone leans over to see what they are comntemplating a call with.

So I would be punished for someone else's actions?

[QUOTE=tinageorge;31846240...a younger guy shoved the river on an AKT72 board with a possible heart flush. The original raiser...folded AK face up. The younger guy mucked but before the dealer dumped the hand into the muck, another older guy who was not in the hand then said IWTSTH. Dealer turns over the hand...[/QUOTE]

Seriously. What Eddie said. This is nowhere close to IWTSTH. This was just horrendous dealing, and can't believe that there were apparently a couple of people at the table who don't get that.

If I was the younger guy it would've taken me 0.3 seconds to call the floor and have him explain to the dealer how to do his damn job.

Tinageorge, like eddie said, unless you mis quoted what happened then you cannot ask to see a non called hand at showdown.

On another note, I think in rooms outside of florida if a particular person or table was abusing IWTSTH then you could call the floor and they would put a stop to it.
At HR I doubt you would get anywhere with doing that, unless maybe you called the shift supervisor with the accent over. Because I know that he knows that is not supposed to be for info purposes but I am not sure if he would stop someone from doing it.