I wouldn't do this. If I have the winning hand I'll just show - why risk a situation where there's some small chance I lose a pot? I'd already decided that if he said that I won at showdown I wouldn't ask to see his hand. Again, why take a small chance at losing a pot?

I had decided though that every time he made it to showdown (and I didn't have the winning hand) I was going to ask to see his hand. Of course he left without ever going to showdown again.

It was weird, he'd played like a "decent" player for a couple of hours without asking to see anyone's hands. Then out of the blue he did it to me twice. I was pretty card dead so I wasn't even involved in a lot of pots.

It honestly doesn't bother me. And even if it did, I'd hate to show that person it bothered me.

I really only got into it because the Floor was right there and then my bad habit of arguing when I know I'm right kicked in. It's a shame that the Borgata has good floor men who know the rules.

By the way Stan, the floor handled it really well.

Stan. I was there on Fri and the 10/20 O.E. was half kill. I see there is 10/20 Omaha 8/b running now. Is that also half kill? is it always half kill cause I plan to come down to play the 10/20 o8/b but if its gonna be half kill I'd like to know that going down.

Tks

This is where it's good to learn how to turbo muck your cards and make them irretrievable. Just be glad this is Borgata and not the Commerce in LA. People asked to see all hands at showdown about 1/3 of the time.

I was in the 9 seat and the dealers keep the muck on the 1 seat side, so it would have been pretty hard.

I might have tried it though just to try and tilt the guy.

WOW!! Another excellent weekend at the borgata. Was great to see stan patrolling his beat in the high limit area.
Funny moment, when talking with one of the floor I casually ask if the floor can call stan to ask stan if there is anything he can do about it and then quickly turn back to my table where everyone is cracking a smile. i turn around and notice stan was standing right next to her at the same time i asked her. was a little embarassing but im glad you didnt make me feel like an idiot
was terrific action at 20/40 limit for whoever was there. for at least 3 hours we had 5 players capped to the flop and the action was just insane. 1000 dollar pots happened with regularity. I hit two straight flushes and quads in a night which is the best i ever ran before. logged in 15 straight hours (my personal record) and then slept a bit only to hit the tables again.
the borg is such a great place to be to spend your weekend when friends are busy, even the 2 1/2 drive was pleasurable with the great weather!
A ++++++

AFAIK, it's always a half kill (any scooped pot over 150).

Woooo finally cashed an mtt at the borgata today after being like 0-25 lifetime...take that survivor MTT

We can stop it if the player is abusing the rule.

Stan

What would you generally consider abuse? 5 times? 15?

I realize its hard to answer hypotheticals, but the Floor made it pretty clear that he was entitled to keep asking.

Ended up playing 10/20 Thursday, and 20/40 Friday, had a great time. No other place to play in AC!
thanks to Stan and everyone in the Poker Room

3 is the magic number at the borg in my vast experience.
Don't be surprised if you get different answers from different floors though.

I would hope they would give different anwers. Not all situations are the same.

Stan

Yeah, I was just looking for an order of magnitude. It was pretty obvious yesterday that I was going to use the rule against this guy at showdown and he was going to use it on me. I was just wondering how far it would go.

I'm honestly not sure why its a rule anymore, but I think its +EV for me since so many people get pissed off when someone uses it against them.

In the midst of tabling your hand per villains request...all you have to do to avoid having the dealer muck your hand is to protect your cards by placing one hand firmly over them at the same time of acting "annoyed" that he forced you to show your hand. It really isn't that complicated---is there still a small chance of the dealer grabbing your cards out from under you, though? Well, yeah, but don't you think you'd be quicker than that? Besides, you would already be prepared for it because this would be pre-planned so it really makes it so unlikely for the dealer to grab your cards. But hey, I'm not trying to sway your decision, I'm just telling you what I would do and what I think would be more fun(!)--- I leave calling the Floor over for much more important things than that, and weasels like him I can take care of my way, in a way that I feel would stop him from trying it again.

And I'm glad to have read that Borgata wouldn't allow the guy to keep doing it any time he felt like it. That is a bad policy to have if indeed they chose not to change it or to make adjustments to. Players like him are what I call "poster childs for online poker"...and that's exactly where they belong if they feel that demanding to see someones hand over and over is perfectly Ok.

I thought I'd share my Borgata poker trip from today. I live just outside Philly - about 1:30 to Borgata. Oddly, even though I can drive there in less than 2 hours, I only go about once a year (but I fly 5 hours to Vegas about 4-5 times a year... lol!)

Anyway, I arrive today around 1:00pm and put my name on the list for $10-20 LHE. I'm 6th on the list and they have 2 tables going. I sit in the waiting area for about 30 minutes and the list hasn't moved. I decide to walk around to find where the games are to check them out. I finally find the games in the back, but unfortunately for me, the people look like they've been sitting there since the Carter administration. This is not a good sign since it doesn't appear these people plan to get up anytime soon. A lady who I'd estimate was about 90 years old busted at one point, but she pulled another $100 out of her pocketbook rather than getting up. It appears that's a normal routine for her since I saw her call down with just a K high at one point - presumably she thought an inside straight draw was worth calling the whole way, even when she missed on the river. Maybe she thought there was still another card to come. I'd certainly like to play in that game against her!

Since I don't see an opening coming in the 10-20, I decide I'll jump into the $20-40 since that list is shorter, but before I do, I decided to watch the $20-40 for a few minutes. I see 2 arguments break out in about 5 minutes, and then quickly decide I won't play that game since the people seem rather rude to each other. (I'm really a $15-30 player which is what I play at Bellagio all the time, I really wish they had $15-30 at Borgata!)

After about an hour and half, I'm still 6th on the list, and the list has only grown to 7 people long. I don't think there is a good chance of a 3rd game starting, and I don't see an opportunity opening up for a seat in the 2 10-20 games, so I decide to leave. I drove 1:30 there, waited for 1:30, and then drove 1:30 home. Total cost = $20 tolls and parking + $20 gas. The good news is that I only lost $40 on the day since I didn't get to play. I'll try again in about a year to get a seat. Although, I do recommend they get Card Player or something for the people waiting like the Vegas casinos have...

That might be the most depressing TR ever.

I don't know. I'd almost rather a clear - "He can keep doing it forever" or a "You can never do it" or a "Once per hour" rule. It's slightly ridiculous that there's just a vague notion of "abuse". Obviously twice wasn't that number, should we just call the floor over after every time and see if we've hit the number yet?

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a pretty minor issue and I consider the Borgata one of the best run casinos in the world.

My only suggestion is that when you're in this situation, call the Taj and find out what the list is like there.

The Taj $10-20 LHE game is usually a lot more fun, IMHO.

nice post barker thx for the contribution in this BORGATA thread

Update please for today.

This didn't happen in AC but I'd like to know what would the floor say:

I'm a 1-2nl home game and I bet $40 into the $60 pot. The next guy puts out $75, and about 1 second after putting the bet out he says "raise".

The dealer counts the chips, says he only put in $75 and it's not a raise, plus he didn't say raise until it was too late...

I think the guy clearly knew his $75 was not a raise, and said "raise" late to confuse me.

I thought as long as you put in at least 50% of a raise, it's a raise....

i.e. if I bet $25 and he put in a green and 3 reds ($40) then he needs to put in $10 more cause it's an auto min raise (note NOTHING was verbalized).

Can you please tell me whats the official rule on this in the card room?

thanks

It varies by card rooms, so whatever your home game plays is standard. I believe the Borgata plays the 50% rule, whereas Harrahs plays that the raise has to be 100% or it's not a raise.

It also depends on which Borgata floor person is asked to make the ruling. One may understand the rules as written in the Borgata rule book which state that 50% or more than the previous bet constitutes a raise. Another floor person has twisted this rule in the past to mean something else.