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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-25-2013, 01:20 AM   #226
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
ahhh, the old "if you're not an X, you can't comment on X" argument. Usually I only see this out of people with double digit IQs in places like youtube comments. Good to see it's alive and well on 2+2.

If I'm not a politician I can't criticize my lying congressman. If I'm not a chef I can't talk about the ****ty meal I just had. If I'm not a mechanic I can't ***** when my car breaks down a day after being in the shop. If I'm not a trained singer I can't comment on someone's ****ty voice. If I don't play in the NFL I can't talk about a missed 20 yard field goal. Glad I came on here so you could straighten all this out for me.

NVG folks, where if you don't understand the topic you just try to make up idiotic analogies for the people that do. Kudos, that was exactly what I was trying to say
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:23 AM   #227
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
NVG folks, where if you don't understand the topic you just try to make up idiotic analogies for the people that do. Kudos, that was exactly what I was trying to say
"First and foremost, if you have never been a bookie, an agent, or a bettor quit effin posting. Some of these replies are moronic at best & it's clear who has no clue about betting and what goes on. (like some idiot that has never been under the hood trying to give mechanic advice, just stop already)"

what I said is perfectly analogous to your ******ed argument. Sorry I called you out and made you look stupid.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:26 AM   #228
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I don't think Chris should pay him, Jason would have never paid had Chris had won.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:27 AM   #229
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
I can't answer that as I don't have the timeline nor details of payment times or their agreement. JY could've been an agent for a huge book who got crushed and took off. That book could have 5 agents and more and JY just be one of them. JY only sees the action that he is an agent for.

If JY has 5 bettors he is an agent for and it's something like this

player A +1000
player B + 3000
player C +500
player D -10k

In JY's world he is fine . Hes collecting 10k and paying out 4500 and taking a cut of the $5500 profit after paying the book. Let's for argument sake say book lost more than he could pay to a huge whale and splits. JY is F****D and gonna look bad if he doesn't collect the 10k because he now owes 3 different ppl. Player D finds out that JY can't pay thru no fault of his own so he correctly assumes that he wasn't getting paid (thus freerolled) but it wasn't JY's fault nor anyones but the bookie. I wldn't be surprised if it went down something like this tbh
this is a good theory imo
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:27 AM   #230
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

lol at u making me look stupid and u brought up a few points about politicians, FG kicker, a chef, and blah blah blah. Yes, u can be mad at a mechanic and the car breaking down you idiot but if you don't know **** about cars than you shouldn't give advice on how to fix a car DUCY??? That's my last reply, u are either trolling, drunk, or plain dumb.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 10-25-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:28 AM   #231
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
lol at u making me look stupid and u brought up a few points about politicians, FG kicker, a chef, and blah blah blah. Yes, u can be mad at a mechanic and the car breaking down you idiot but if you don't know s**t about cars than you shouldn't give advice on how to fix a car DUCY??? That's my last reply, u are either trolling, drunk, or plain dumb.
(89 IQ youtube commenter)
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:29 AM   #232
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
ahhh, the old "if you're not an X, you can't comment on X" argument. Usually I only see this out of people with double digit IQs in places like youtube comments. Good to see it's alive and well on 2+2.

If I'm not a politician I can't criticize my lying congressman. If I'm not a chef I can't talk about the ****ty meal I just had. If I'm not a mechanic I can't ***** when my car breaks down a day after being in the shop. If I'm not a trained singer I can't comment on someone's ****ty voice. If I don't play in the NFL I can't talk about a missed 20 yard field goal. Glad I came on here so you could straighten all this out for me.
You're missing the point. You don't ask a doctor to fix a car, you don't ask a mechanic to do surgery. I get that BanSoon came off like he's "higher" than the posters in this thread because he's had experience as bookie but no need to take it personally

(The NFL, field goal kicker example, was really bad)
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:29 AM   #233
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

the comments of those in here who have no exp in this field are the equivalent of the ppl who make ridiculously bad comments on poker hands in youtube video comments section.

no one cares what you have to say, nor should anyone.

trying to act like stating that is somehow "douchey" or that it needs to be pointed out that you're somehow incredulous to such a comment is unneeded and only clogging the thread up. literally no. one. cares.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:30 AM   #234
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Moneymaker has been in documentaries where he has stated he stiffed bookies, and unplugged his phone when they called too much. Wouldn't surprise me at all if moneymaker is pulling something here.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:32 AM   #235
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

yes because it's very hard to understand the incredibly difficult and arcane business of "bookmaking". Clearly only licensed bookmakers and Math PhDs should be able to comment on this highly specialized and complex business.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:34 AM   #236
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by sushibones View Post
You're missing the point. You don't ask a doctor to fix a car, you don't ask a mechanic to do surgery. I get that BanSoon came off like he's "higher" than the posters in this thread because he's had experience as bookie but no need to take it personally

Certainly didn't mean to come off like I was 'higher' than posters, just that I know the business (not a good thing) and how things can really get messed up. Id also just read countless posts where it was obvious that posters knew nothing about what they were speaking and u hit nail on head with your analogy and sketchy as well below.

Anyway that's why I wasn't sure I was gonna post, ppl love to attack u when they don't know what they're talking about so w/e. Hope it gets worked out to bth JY & Chris's satisfaction
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:37 AM   #237
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
I can't answer that
i'll take a stab, because he was broke after sinking all his eggs into other **** that failed.

Then he comes here and starts his post off with how trusted he is and how much he has been scammed for.

He took on MM action after owing a bunch of other peoples money.

Chris should not give this guy 1 cent
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:55 AM   #238
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Amazing to me Jason is so willing to admit he was an agent, basically the same thing Boosted J is facing jail time for.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:03 AM   #239
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Clearly they're both being scummy.

It's like two guys trying to swap action in a tournament when one already busted and the other never registered in the first place.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:03 AM   #240
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
So if you found out your bookie had no plans on paying out winners (including yourself) you would be fine with paying him?
If you have some reason to believe the bookie isn't going to pay out....why are you booking bets with him in the first place?

This whole after the fact "I heard he owes other people and isn't paying"....is irrelevant to me....just because you aren't fronting the money doesn't mean you didn't place a bet.

You placed a bet and that bet was booked. The assumption is that based on the outcome of the game/games the money will be settled up. There is no provision in that contract for "I heard you didn't pay out a couple of people...so I am withholding my losses"

If he had won and hadn't gotten paid....and the bookie refused to pay or ignored him and made no effort...then you have a grievance...and a thread.

This is a transaction between two people....not a group of people.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:04 AM   #241
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Played with moneymaker at Caesars in Vegas during the wsop. Quite possibly one of the worst cash game players I have ever seen. That is, until I played against Jamie gold
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:06 AM   #242
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
yes because it's very hard to understand the incredibly difficult and arcane business of "bookmaking". Clearly only licensed bookmakers and Math PhDs should be able to comment on this highly specialized and complex business.
I have heard people simplify poker in the same matter before...

I'm agreeing with sketchy1 here, but this is nvg so you're going to have to expect non-experience posters to chime in (this would include myself)

There can be value from non-experience views but I tend to give greater weight to someones argument that has had experience in the field that they are talking about, it doesn't mean that they are right but that they should be given greater consideration on their points.

After reading BanSooners' posts I've been swayed towards his point of view on this particular matter.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:10 AM   #243
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by xalas View Post
I have heard people simplify poker in the same matter before...

I'm agreeing with sketchy1 here, but this is nvg so you're going to have to expect non-experience posters to chime in (this would include myself)

There can be value from non-experience views but I tend to give greater weight to someones argument that has had experience in the field that they are talking about, it doesn't mean that they are right but that they should be given greater consideration on their points.

After reading BanSooners' posts I've been swayed towards his point of view on this particular matter.
+1

Interesting and tough spot all around.

Def feel like moderation with people who are well respected in both communities would be best route.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:11 AM   #244
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by xalas View Post
I have heard people simplify poker in the same matter before...

I'm agreeing with sketchy1 here, but this is nvg so you're going to have to expect non-experience posters to chime in (this would include myself)

There can be value from non-experience views but I tend to give greater weight to someones argument that has had experience in the field that they are talking about, it doesn't mean that they are right but that they should be given greater consideration on their points.

After reading BanSooners' posts I've been swayed towards his point of view on this particular matter.
Of course I acknowledge that there ARE certain fields which require specialized knowledge and training (oncology, forensic science, high stakes NLHE, and yes even fixing a car) but settling a gambling dispute when most of the facts are available in this thread, is not one of them. Especially since youtube comment IQ guy didn't even address any of the supposedly flawed arguments being made by non-bookies, he just said SHUT UP AND DON'T COMMENT like a blowhard idiot.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:26 AM   #245
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
Of course I acknowledge that there ARE certain fields which require specialized knowledge and training (oncology, forensic science, high stakes NLHE, and yes even fixing a car) but settling a gambling dispute when most of the facts are available in this thread, is not one of them. Especially since youtube comment IQ guy didn't even address any of the supposedly flawed arguments being made by non-bookies, he just said SHUT UP AND DON'T COMMENT like a blowhard idiot.
I think he is frustrated by some of the outrageous comments being made like this one..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinster55 View Post
Clearly they're both being scummy.

It's like two guys trying to swap action in a tournament when one already busted and the other never registered in the first place.
There are some strange certainty in their rather off beat opinions, can you see why he might be showing some frustration?
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:28 AM   #246
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

ding ding ding
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:30 AM   #247
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillCK View Post
If you have some reason to believe the bookie isn't going to pay out....why are you booking bets with him in the first place?
We find this out AFTER we've placed our bets.

According to CM here's what happened.

He wins 5k early April
Rolls wins over to next week due to being on a trip
Loses 20k and now owes 15k
He informs JY he's on a trip and will pay up once he returns home

According to CM this is when he receives a message from someone who is owed 18k by Jason for several weeks.

If this is accurate, wouldn't it stand to reason that Jason was freerolling CM?

Later it turns out JY owes 40k+
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:33 AM   #248
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

here is a pretty good analogy.

Let's say you are a clueless poker player who does not read forums etc. and you are reading cardplayer and decide to join mockpoker.

You join and echeck in. U lose 1k and they never deduct it from your account.

You stumble upon 2+2 and find out they are out of business and have stiffed other players and they owe out a ton of money and are not paying anyone

They then email you and say they lost your payment info and they would like you to pay them.

Would you pay them?


Basically the same thing that happened here
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:44 AM   #249
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Settle for $10,000 and call it a day.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:47 AM   #250
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Timeline doesn't matter as much as some people say it does and here is why

There are people who still haven't been paid by Jason end of story.
It doesn't matter if you have 20k receivable from a reputable pro, the fact that Jason has outstanding payables shows that he was booking bets without sufficient funds to cover the losses whether it was before or after being owed 20k from Chris.
That in itself is freerolling and although it is cringeworthy that Chris wouldn't pay a bet that he lost fairly on face value, there is clear proof that he was being freerolled so he shouldn't have to pay. I definitely wouldn't pay if I had evidence of being freerolled based on principle.
And Chris paying the people that are owed is just ****ing ridiculous it shouldn't even be mentioned.. It has absolutely nothing to do Chris..
Chris not paying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris paying Jason >>>> Chris paying the others owed.
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