With all due respect chris, you're supposed to be some kind of spokesman for the game.

Bringing rubbish like this into the public is just a perfect example of why this great game's reputation has been dragged through the mud over the past few years.

Shame on you for bringing your personal problems into the public limelight!

Pretty much. Last sentence is gold haha (but its Farha).

And I must be drunk bc I thought I just saw NVG clamoring for an agent to publicly out the next step up the ladder. It leads me to believe that people don't seem to understand that sports betting involves different kind of folks than televised tournament poker (not mutually exclusive obv).

MoneyMaker and Jason, you guys both have problems, both are at fault in this situation. 2p2 will be divided over your issue, and neither of you will have a definitive backing from this community. Take your dispute elsewhere, at this point you are both coming off as young children barking your side to an older adult, who is not going to side with one or the other.

Hi there dad!

That's how I feel. Chris is some sort of legend for one epic week's run of poker - he should ride that to his grave. But this damages his reputation.. and poker in general. Right or wrong matters so much less in the face of the big picture. Disappointed. Take this offline Chris, as you should have in the first place.

Chris is obviously strapped for cash. who doesn't just pay this off when it was lost and keep it from getting to this point.

Agreed. Chris might even be justified in his complaint, and I do not care. His status in the poker world should make him above all of this. It's so disappointing.

It's really not that big of a deal.

He didn't ask to be any spokesman for the game - he qualified online back in its infancy and parlayed it into a WSOP Main Event win. That's great but we are all human. Chris has mentioned in numerous interviews over the years his appetite for gambling, esp sports.

To be quite honest, he has been a pretty low-key guy over the past decade and really down to earth. He doesn't belittle anyone, he is polite and very approachable. He didn't even want this crap on 2+2 anyways, JYoung threatened to post about it so he did it first.

At this point however, I don't think we will ever get to the nuts and bolts of who screwed who because there are just too many unknowns. JYoung hasn't posted any sort of proof through names, call logs, etc... and Chris doesn't have any of that stuff either.

To blame Chris though because he is some "spokesman" is RIDICULOUS.

It never is, when its not your 25K

lol @ MM going to sleep at 8pm.

+1

Touche

hu for 25k and reputations

I bet Jesus would have payed his debts, even if he was being freerolled.

I nominate Jroberts and Katana to arbitrate

This sums my thoughts up nicely, I am depressed by the amount of stupid posts itt.

Ok I've read through this entire thread, my thoughts:

To put simply, Chris pay him the money.

Your defence to paying him seems to be that you received notice from other players subsequent to losing the bet in question that Jason owes them money and you feel that you are being freerolled.

Well let me just say that if you were stupid enough to make the bet in the first place and lose without doing the due dilligence on Jason (that is, to check his losing payments were up-to-date with other players as much as you could) then it is your responsibility to pay him and it's the responsibility of the other players that are owed money by Jason to pursue him for that money. You are not in a position to take a stand or the high moral ground.

As far as you were aware when you took his credit at the time you made the losing bet, you believed that he was dependable and it is irrelevant that afterwards you became aware that he potentially owed money to other players.

It is also unreasonable for you to later say that he shouldn't get his money because he was in no position to pay me if I had won if I knew about this information of players not being paid before making the bet.

Again you made the mistake by placing a bet with him without checking his priors and you're not in a position to handle how he should pay his creditors.

If this wasn't a freeroll, I don't know what is. Jason was essentially outed for trying to scam Chris and he does not deserve to be paid. It is not Chris' duty to pay off Jason's previous scam victims either.

Kudos to Chris for having the balls to stiff this scammer.

I recently watched All-in the poker documentary. I was surprised at the time, CM admitted to stiffing quite a few bookies before he won the WSOP. I am wondering if you ever paid them off, after winning 2.5 Million??

Who knows if I will hit the reply button after typing this mess but we'll see how it sounds.

First and foremost, if you have never been a bookie, an agent, or a bettor quit effin posting. Some of these replies are moronic at best & it's clear who has no clue about betting and what goes on. (like some idiot that has never been under the hood trying to give mechanic advice, just stop already)

I have booked sports before, been an agent before, had agents and in 20 years have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I've been stiffed as an agent and bookie (part of the business) and I have had spots where I couldn't pay. **** happens as they say and the only reason I am posting this is b/c I consider Chris a good friend and I have a very good friend who is tight with JY and I trust him explicitly (Dareyoutocall)

Usually the only thing that would matter is if Chris was going to get paid had he won 25k or w/e the number was. I think the answer is yes but it comes with an asterik and the problem is only JY knows. If JY got hosed by his bookie (plausible) than MF kudos to him for paying off a debt that isn't his to pay. I cannot stress enough this point and those that are not privy to the role of an agent cannot understand this enough. If JY is using the "bookie disappeared" and there was never a bookie than he's the worst of the worst but again I cannot see that for several reasons.

1. He's made payments
2. He genuinely thinks he's right
3. He's got solid ppl vouching for him

On Chris's behalf he has very solid ppl saying he always settled in thread
He has come in here and stated his case and believes he is 100% right
He has no reason to believe JY since others stated JY owed him

Chris has said multiple times that you guys find someone to arbitrate and there are plenty of respectable ppl that you could get to do this. I think this is what you should do JY b/c otherwise you aren't getting a penny.

As for where I stand I really am split. I think you both had the right intentions and unfortunately things just went really badly. Good luck to the both of you working this out

1 more thing

No way in hell JY is a scammer. Scammers don't pay off debts that are theirs, much less debts that aren't theirs. NVG can be brutal sometimes

Why was this guy booking MM action when he already owed multiple people lots money?

To get the outcome he did which was for MM to lose

I can't answer that as I don't have the timeline nor details of payment times or their agreement. JY could've been an agent for a huge book who got crushed and took off. That book could have 5 agents and more and JY just be one of them. JY only sees the action that he is an agent for.

If JY has 5 bettors he is an agent for and it's something like this

player A +1000
player B + 3000
player C +500
player D -10k

In JY's world he is fine . Hes collecting 10k and paying out 4500 and taking a cut of the $5500 profit after paying the book. Let's for argument sake say book lost more than he could pay to a huge whale and splits. JY is F****D and gonna look bad if he doesn't collect the 10k because he now owes 3 different ppl. Player D finds out that JY can't pay thru no fault of his own so he correctly assumes that he wasn't getting paid (thus freerolled) but it wasn't JY's fault nor anyones but the bookie. I wldn't be surprised if it went down something like this tbh

ahhh, the old "if you're not an X, you can't comment on X" argument. Usually I only see this out of people with double digit IQs in places like youtube comments. Good to see it's alive and well on 2+2.

If I'm not a politician I can't criticize my lying congressman. If I'm not a chef I can't talk about the ****ty meal I just had. If I'm not a mechanic I can't bitch when my car breaks down a day after being in the shop. If I'm not a trained singer I can't comment on someone's ****ty voice. If I don't play in the NFL I can't talk about a missed 20 yard field goal. Glad I came on here so you could straighten all this out for me.

Wow sounds like you two are both huge degens and need to stop being degens. To me this sounds like there really is no "boss". If there was a "boss" he needs to be outed for any of Jasons story to hold up otherwise there is no proof that this site in which they bet on was not Jason himself freerolling. I cant see how this could ever be resolved without that proof.