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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-24-2013, 10:04 PM   #201
888prof1234
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

With all due respect chris, you're supposed to be some kind of spokesman for the game.

Bringing rubbish like this into the public is just a perfect example of why this great game's reputation has been dragged through the mud over the past few years.

Shame on you for bringing your personal problems into the public limelight!
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:04 PM   #202
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrawNone View Post
sounds like you should be sorry that YOU dont understand that those two things are functionally the same.

you vouched, so you DID lose money to those people.

you're a random scammer and hes the guy who bluffed SAMMY ****ING FARAH to win the WSOP. go make a panini.
Pretty much. Last sentence is gold haha (but its Farha).

And I must be drunk bc I thought I just saw NVG clamoring for an agent to publicly out the next step up the ladder. It leads me to believe that people don't seem to understand that sports betting involves different kind of folks than televised tournament poker (not mutually exclusive obv).
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:15 PM   #203
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

MoneyMaker and Jason, you guys both have problems, both are at fault in this situation. 2p2 will be divided over your issue, and neither of you will have a definitive backing from this community. Take your dispute elsewhere, at this point you are both coming off as young children barking your side to an older adult, who is not going to side with one or the other.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:22 PM   #204
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bias1 View Post
MoneyMaker and Jason, you guys both have problems, both are at fault in this situation. 2p2 will be divided over your issue, and neither of you will have a definitive backing from this community. Take your dispute elsewhere, at this point you are both coming off as young children barking your side to an older adult, who is not going to side with one or the other.
Hi there dad!
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:32 PM   #205
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888prof1234 View Post
With all due respect chris, you're supposed to be some kind of spokesman for the game.

Bringing rubbish like this into the public is just a perfect example of why this great game's reputation has been dragged through the mud over the past few years.

Shame on you for bringing your personal problems into the public limelight!
That's how I feel. Chris is some sort of legend for one epic week's run of poker - he should ride that to his grave. But this damages his reputation.. and poker in general. Right or wrong matters so much less in the face of the big picture. Disappointed. Take this offline Chris, as you should have in the first place.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:35 PM   #206
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by brownsbuck View Post
That's how I feel. Chris is some sort of legend for one epic week's run of poker - he should ride that to his grave. But this damages his reputation.. and poker in general. Right or wrong matters so much less in the face of the big picture. Disappointed. Take this offline Chris, as you should have in the first place.
Chris is obviously strapped for cash. who doesn't just pay this off when it was lost and keep it from getting to this point.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:36 PM   #207
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by PokerFan2008 View Post
Chris is obviously strapped for cash. who doesn't just pay this off when it was lost and keep it from getting to this point.
Agreed. Chris might even be justified in his complaint, and I do not care. His status in the poker world should make him above all of this. It's so disappointing.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:44 PM   #208
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

It's really not that big of a deal.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:50 PM   #209
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by brownsbuck View Post
Agreed. Chris might even be justified in his complaint, and I do not care. His status in the poker world should make him above all of this. It's so disappointing.
He didn't ask to be any spokesman for the game - he qualified online back in its infancy and parlayed it into a WSOP Main Event win. That's great but we are all human. Chris has mentioned in numerous interviews over the years his appetite for gambling, esp sports.

To be quite honest, he has been a pretty low-key guy over the past decade and really down to earth. He doesn't belittle anyone, he is polite and very approachable. He didn't even want this crap on 2+2 anyways, JYoung threatened to post about it so he did it first.

At this point however, I don't think we will ever get to the nuts and bolts of who screwed who because there are just too many unknowns. JYoung hasn't posted any sort of proof through names, call logs, etc... and Chris doesn't have any of that stuff either.

To blame Chris though because he is some "spokesman" is RIDICULOUS.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:51 PM   #210
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by ReliableSource View Post
It's really not that big of a deal.
It never is, when its not your 25K
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:51 PM   #211
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

lol @ MM going to sleep at 8pm.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:52 PM   #212
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by PokerFan2008 View Post
It never is, when its not your 25K
+1

Touche
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:18 PM   #213
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

hu for 25k and reputations
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:27 PM   #214
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I bet Jesus would have payed his debts, even if he was being freerolled.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:29 PM   #215
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I nominate Jroberts and Katana to arbitrate
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #216
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boobies4me View Post
Just wanted to say I've read all the posts in the thread to this point and it seems to me that JY was insolvent and trying to help keep everything from crumbling apart too much by having CM pay off sheets because he didn't have the money to. If the money owed to sheets, as well as other debts, weren't able to be paid around the same time CM lost, it stands to reason CM wasn't going to get his money either and being freerolled. If that's the case then he doesn't have any responsibility to help the people who scammed him pay off some of their other debts.

Cliffs: Druff already nailed it.

Also, the guy coming in and posting that JY paid him trivially small amounts, as well as sheet saying $500 was paid, it just reinforces the fact that JY was insolvent and stalling.

Did anyone else also take note of the fact that JY said people would be lining up to come in here and vouch for him and all we get is some guy saying he got stalled on even being paid tiny amounts?
This sums my thoughts up nicely, I am depressed by the amount of stupid posts itt.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:44 PM   #217
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Ok I've read through this entire thread, my thoughts:

To put simply, Chris pay him the money.

Your defence to paying him seems to be that you received notice from other players subsequent to losing the bet in question that Jason owes them money and you feel that you are being freerolled.

Well let me just say that if you were stupid enough to make the bet in the first place and lose without doing the due dilligence on Jason (that is, to check his losing payments were up-to-date with other players as much as you could) then it is your responsibility to pay him and it's the responsibility of the other players that are owed money by Jason to pursue him for that money. You are not in a position to take a stand or the high moral ground.

As far as you were aware when you took his credit at the time you made the losing bet, you believed that he was dependable and it is irrelevant that afterwards you became aware that he potentially owed money to other players.

It is also unreasonable for you to later say that he shouldn't get his money because he was in no position to pay me if I had won if I knew about this information of players not being paid before making the bet.

Again you made the mistake by placing a bet with him without checking his priors and you're not in a position to handle how he should pay his creditors.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:52 PM   #218
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

If this wasn't a freeroll, I don't know what is. Jason was essentially outed for trying to scam Chris and he does not deserve to be paid. It is not Chris' duty to pay off Jason's previous scam victims either.

Kudos to Chris for having the balls to stiff this scammer.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:31 AM   #219
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I recently watched All-in the poker documentary. I was surprised at the time, CM admitted to stiffing quite a few bookies before he won the WSOP. I am wondering if you ever paid them off, after winning 2.5 Million??
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:32 AM   #220
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Who knows if I will hit the reply button after typing this mess but we'll see how it sounds.

First and foremost, if you have never been a bookie, an agent, or a bettor quit effin posting. Some of these replies are moronic at best & it's clear who has no clue about betting and what goes on. (like some idiot that has never been under the hood trying to give mechanic advice, just stop already)

I have booked sports before, been an agent before, had agents and in 20 years have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I've been stiffed as an agent and bookie (part of the business) and I have had spots where I couldn't pay. **** happens as they say and the only reason I am posting this is b/c I consider Chris a good friend and I have a very good friend who is tight with JY and I trust him explicitly (Dareyoutocall)

Usually the only thing that would matter is if Chris was going to get paid had he won 25k or w/e the number was. I think the answer is yes but it comes with an asterik and the problem is only JY knows. If JY got hosed by his bookie (plausible) than MF kudos to him for paying off a debt that isn't his to pay. I cannot stress enough this point and those that are not privy to the role of an agent cannot understand this enough. If JY is using the "bookie disappeared" and there was never a bookie than he's the worst of the worst but again I cannot see that for several reasons.

1. He's made payments
2. He genuinely thinks he's right
3. He's got solid ppl vouching for him

On Chris's behalf he has very solid ppl saying he always settled in thread
He has come in here and stated his case and believes he is 100% right
He has no reason to believe JY since others stated JY owed him

Chris has said multiple times that you guys find someone to arbitrate and there are plenty of respectable ppl that you could get to do this. I think this is what you should do JY b/c otherwise you aren't getting a penny.

As for where I stand I really am split. I think you both had the right intentions and unfortunately things just went really badly. Good luck to the both of you working this out

1 more thing

No way in hell JY is a scammer. Scammers don't pay off debts that are theirs, much less debts that aren't theirs. NVG can be brutal sometimes

Last edited by SGT RJ; 10-25-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:51 AM   #221
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
No way in hell JY is a scammer. Scammers don't pay off debts that are theirs, much less debts that aren't theirs. NVG can be brutal sometimes
Why was this guy booking MM action when he already owed multiple people lots money?
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:58 AM   #222
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
Why was this guy booking MM action when he already owed multiple people lots money?
To get the outcome he did which was for MM to lose
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:03 AM   #223
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
Why was this guy booking MM action when he already owed multiple people lots money?
I can't answer that as I don't have the timeline nor details of payment times or their agreement. JY could've been an agent for a huge book who got crushed and took off. That book could have 5 agents and more and JY just be one of them. JY only sees the action that he is an agent for.

If JY has 5 bettors he is an agent for and it's something like this

player A +1000
player B + 3000
player C +500
player D -10k

In JY's world he is fine . Hes collecting 10k and paying out 4500 and taking a cut of the $5500 profit after paying the book. Let's for argument sake say book lost more than he could pay to a huge whale and splits. JY is F****D and gonna look bad if he doesn't collect the 10k because he now owes 3 different ppl. Player D finds out that JY can't pay thru no fault of his own so he correctly assumes that he wasn't getting paid (thus freerolled) but it wasn't JY's fault nor anyones but the bookie. I wldn't be surprised if it went down something like this tbh
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:12 AM   #224
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BanSooners View Post
Who knows if I will hit the reply button after typing this mess but we'll see how it sounds.

First and foremost, if you have never been a bookie, an agent, or a bettor quit effin posting. Some of these replies are moronic at best & it's clear who has no clue about betting and what goes on. (like some idiot that has never been under the hood trying to give mechanic advice, just stop already)

I have booked sports before, been an agent before, had agents and in 20 years have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I've been stiffed as an agent and bookie (part of the business) and I have had spots where I couldn't pay. S**t happens as they say and the only reason I am posting this is b/c I consider Chris a good friend and I have a very good friend who is tight with JY and I trust him explicitly (Dareyoutocall)

Usually the only thing that would matter is if Chris was going to get paid had he won 25k or w/e the number was. I think the answer is yes but it comes with an asterik and the problem is only JY knows. If JY got hosed by his bookie (plausible) than MF kudos to him for paying off a debt that isn't his to pay. I cannot stress enough this point and those that are not privy to the role of an agent cannot understand this enough. If JY is using the "bookie disappeared" and there was never a bookie than he's the worst of the worst but again I cannot see that for several reasons.

1. He's made payments
2. He genuinely thinks he's right
3. He's got solid ppl vouching for him

On Chris's behalf he has very solid ppl saying he always settled in thread
He has come in here and stated his case and believes he is 100% right
He has no reason to believe JY since others stated JY owed him

Chris has said multiple times that you guys find someone to arbitrate and there are plenty of respectable ppl that you could get to do this. I think this is what you should do JY b/c otherwise you aren't getting a penny.

As for where I stand I really am split. I think you both had the right intentions and unfortunately things just went really badly. Good luck to the both of you working this out

1 more thing

No way in hell JY is a scammer. Scammers don't pay off debts that are theirs, much less debts that aren't theirs. NVG can be brutal sometimes
ahhh, the old "if you're not an X, you can't comment on X" argument. Usually I only see this out of people with double digit IQs in places like youtube comments. Good to see it's alive and well on 2+2.

If I'm not a politician I can't criticize my lying congressman. If I'm not a chef I can't talk about the ****ty meal I just had. If I'm not a mechanic I can't ***** when my car breaks down a day after being in the shop. If I'm not a trained singer I can't comment on someone's ****ty voice. If I don't play in the NFL I can't talk about a missed 20 yard field goal. Glad I came on here so you could straighten all this out for me.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:16 AM   #225
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Wow sounds like you two are both huge degens and need to stop being degens. To me this sounds like there really is no "boss". If there was a "boss" he needs to be outed for any of Jasons story to hold up otherwise there is no proof that this site in which they bet on was not Jason himself freerolling. I cant see how this could ever be resolved without that proof.
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