Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2020, 12:00 AM   #12426
EternalRaise
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
How do you know this? Do you know him personally or just take his word?
Do you also believe he won millions on UB?

The guys own brother admitted on stream that Mike has been scamming people since grade school.

Maybe pick a better hill to die on.
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=47805

Based on these it is pretty clear that Postle have make enough to make living playing tournaments. Not big money, but living.

And this comes other way around. If you think Postle have not played poker as living hood, then you should have at least some kind of evidence for it. Have some insider said that?
EternalRaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 12:25 AM   #12427
executiveauto
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Boston
Posts: 155
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Kind of wondering where that idea originated ?

Not aware of such a finding that he was "innocent" that I've seen in this thread.

Fwiw, someone may be found "not guilty" of some crime, but even that is not "found innocent" .... Ask OJ, who was sued in civil court after being found "not guilty" of as crime.
civil and criminal have different standards. you can be found not guilty, have case thrown out of criminal court and still be sued in civil. criminal is beyond reasonable doubt, as we all know, but in civil court it there is a lower standard. has nothing to do with innocent or not guilty.
executiveauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 12:30 AM   #12428
executiveauto
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Boston
Posts: 155
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
I did not say anything about his legal situation.
well, you specifically addressed me saying he is guilty, since my entire point of view is based on mp not being charged or found guilty of any wrong doing that is why i said legally.
executiveauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 12:34 AM   #12429
TimM
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TimM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,543
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalRaise View Post
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=47805

Based on these it is pretty clear that Postle have make enough to make living playing tournaments. Not big money, but living.
Not at all. That 539K number doesn't have entry fees deducted. Nor does it have any deductions for events where he didn't cash. He could easily be a losing player at tournaments. Nor does it have any other expenses deducted like travel, hotels, etc. That is not the profile of a player with god-like reads.
TimM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 02:14 AM   #12430
EternalRaise
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM View Post
Not at all. That 539K number doesn't have entry fees deducted. Nor does it have any deductions for events where he didn't cash. He could easily be a losing player at tournaments. Nor does it have any other expenses deducted like travel, hotels, etc. That is not the profile of a player with god-like reads.
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=47805

Numbers 2015-2019: buy-ins 23266$
Amount won: 170k$

Mostly not hotel etc. for Postle since games have been played at Stones.

Multiplier to get good assumption of real total buy-ins depend on what you assume. Is there edge to some direction before bubble etc., but is probable somewhere between 6 and 8. 1100$ buy-ins are rarely played, so they can easily make some difference.

But based on those I would assume that Postle is net winner from tournaments in years 2015-2019: +10k$-30k$.

Ok. A lot less that I would have assumed it to be.
EternalRaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 08:09 AM   #12431
namisgr11
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,346
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

^^^ Confusing. It seems you're saying he bought in for more than he won, yet is a net winner.

I know this much: he's a massive winner in cash games being live streamed by Stones when his phone is in his lap, and he spends a bunch of time during the early part of hands looking at it.
namisgr11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 09:55 AM   #12432
PLIKITYPLAK
veteran
 
PLIKITYPLAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,512
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalRaise View Post
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=47805

Numbers 2015-2019: buy-ins 23266$
Amount won: 170k$

Mostly not hotel etc. for Postle since games have been played at Stones.

Multiplier to get good assumption of real total buy-ins depend on what you assume. Is there edge to some direction before bubble etc., but is probable somewhere between 6 and 8. 1100$ buy-ins are rarely played, so they can easily make some difference.

But based on those I would assume that Postle is net winner from tournaments in years 2015-2019: +10k$-30k$.

Ok. A lot less that I would have assumed it to be.
You do realize that the database does not include tournaments in which he entered and did not cash, right?
PLIKITYPLAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 11:12 AM   #12433
EternalRaise
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLIKITYPLAK View Post
You do realize that the database does not include tournaments in which he entered and did not cash, right?
That's what multiplier there is for. Pretty easy to approximate somewhat accurately how many tournaments have been played, when it is known what percentage cash.
EternalRaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 02:00 PM   #12434
R*R
I wish I was Einstein
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Crossfire Hurricane
Posts: 12,524
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveauto View Post
well, you specifically addressed me saying he is guilty, since my entire point of view is based on mp not being charged or found guilty of any wrong doing that is why i said legally.
Sure let us just beat a dead drum.
R*R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 02:41 PM   #12435
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 5,704
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveauto View Post
civil and criminal have different standards. you can be found not guilty, have case thrown out of criminal court and still be sued in civil. criminal is beyond reasonable doubt, as we all know, but in civil court it there is a lower standard. has nothing to do with innocent or not guilty.
That is what I said. You are not "found innocent" if you are found "not guilty" of a crime. You are acquitted on the criminal charges and cannot again be charged for the same crime.

You are always presumed "innocent", unless proven guilty in a criminal proceeding.

Sorry, R&R, that horse may not yet be dead, there were no criminal charges in this matter. As for a different horse race, .....Keep in mind for 2021, sometimes someone seeks a Presidential pardon without even having been charged with a crime. Doesn't make him innocent and doesn't affect criminal liability for State-level charges that have or may be brought.
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 02:50 PM   #12436
oliveras19
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 15
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Has any Defendant been served yet with the Complaint?
oliveras19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 09:55 PM   #12437
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,268
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliveras19 View Post
Has any Defendant been served yet with the Complaint?
Ha, ha, ha. I am sure it would be all over this thread if they were.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 09:58 PM   #12438
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveauto View Post
again, i am not saying i think he is innocent and never made that claim. i am saying it was never proved he cheated and all the ppl who used their platforms to call him a cheat and ruin his name are in the wrong.
Yes, it was never proved he cheated. It is also true that all of the people who used their platforms to call him a cheat have also not been proven wrong.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 10:16 PM   #12439
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Also, I can't believe that we are in 2020, in a thread with more than 12,000 replies, and anyone would still consider using Hendon Mob prize totals to prove whether someone is or isn't a winning player.

Especially astounding given that we're almost three full years armed with Daniel Negreanu's prizes vs. buy-ins revelation.

The 0.05 percent of you who enjoy baseball might like this:

Player A had 117 career MLB home runs.
Player B had 117 career MLB home runs.
Player C had 121 career MLB home runs.

So clearly, Player C was the best hitter of the bunch.

Spoiler:
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 10:35 PM   #12440
EternalRaise
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Also, I can't believe that we are in 2020, in a thread with more than 12,000 replies, and anyone would still consider using Hendon Mob prize totals to prove whether someone is or isn't a winning player.

Especially astounding given that we're almost three full years armed with Daniel Negreanu's prizes vs. buy-ins revelation.
LOL.

https://fullcontactpoker.com/year-end-results/
"Events 291
Cashes 68
ITM % 23.4"

Enough cashes to approximate total events played even if Daniel would have not disclose them.

Most tournies Postle have played is even against small field.

Last edited by EternalRaise; 11-06-2020 at 10:49 PM.
EternalRaise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 11:33 PM   #12441
Karmic
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 84
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Forgive me if it's been addressed earlier in the thread but I have a question for the lawyers. If you are claiming loss of income don't you have to make a reasonable claim for what the amount of lost income would be? If you cant work for a year, for example, it would be reasonable to claim your last years salary. How would that work for a poker player though?
Karmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 05:56 AM   #12442
lagtight
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
lagtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,127
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Also, I can't believe that we are in 2020, in a thread with more than 12,000 replies, and anyone would still consider using Hendon Mob prize totals to prove whether someone is or isn't a winning player.

Especially astounding given that we're almost three full years armed with Daniel Negreanu's prizes vs. buy-ins revelation.

The 0.05 percent of you who enjoy baseball might like this:

Player A had 117 career MLB home runs.
Player B had 117 career MLB home runs.
Player C had 121 career MLB home runs.

So clearly, Player C was the best hitter of the bunch.

Spoiler:
I'm one of those .05%. Wayne Gross was the regular third baseman on the 1979 Oakland A's, which was probably the worst Oakland A's team ever.
lagtight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2020, 09:15 AM   #12443
bossi
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 2
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

loss of income is just one thing in this case.
bossi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2020, 09:40 PM   #12444
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight View Post
I'm one of those .05%. Wayne Gross was the regular third baseman on the 1979 Oakland A's, which was probably the worst Oakland A's team ever.
Pretty crazy that they went from being the worst team in baseball in 1979 to having the best winning percentage two years later, with almost the same group of players. I say "almost," because a certain outfielder joined the team right around the All-Star Break in 1979.

Wait a minute...

You could argue the A's uptick truly started in the middle of the 1979 season: they won only 26 of their first 100 games, but 28 of their last 62.

And we saw that Mike Postle also experienced a sudden uptick in the middle of the summer.

I think I cracked it.

Spoiler:
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 11:12 PM   #12445
executiveauto
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Boston
Posts: 155
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Yes, it was never proved he cheated. It is also true that all of the people who used their platforms to call him a cheat have also not been proven wrong.
It isn't up to mike to prove them wrong. Also, it is impossible to prove he didn't cheat. I could say you like to sleep with dogs, how could you prove me wrong? Say you prefer cats? I am unsure of the point you tried to make. In the United States if you accuse someone of a crime you need to be able to prove it or risk opening yourself up to lawsuit if you caused damages.

At the end of the day I just think it would be nice for the doug polk, joey ingram opportunistic *******s that they are to be held accountable for their actions. I'm sure they made money from all the videos they did on the subject. You shouldn't go around accusing others when you can't prove it. And to all the players that want to chime in on his unrealistic win rate, etc. that means nothing.
executiveauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2020, 12:30 AM   #12446
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,598
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveauto View Post
In the United States if you accuse someone of a crime you need to be able to prove it or risk opening yourself up to lawsuit if you caused damages.
As quoted, you are completely 100% incorrect. Most people accusing someone of a crime actual have complete immunity in the U.S., regardless if the accused is found guilty or not. Thanks for sharing your incorrect opinion so late in the game though. It was really beneficial.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2020, 12:43 AM   #12447
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by executiveauto View Post
It isn't up to mike to prove them wrong. Also, it is impossible to prove he didn't cheat. I could say you like to sleep with dogs, how could you prove me wrong? Say you prefer cats? I am unsure of the point you tried to make. In the United States if you accuse someone of a crime you need to be able to prove it or risk opening yourself up to lawsuit if you caused damages.
For starters, my point was simply to refute this part of your previous post:

Quote:
...all the ppl who used their platforms to call him a cheat and ruin his name are in the wrong.
I'm unsure why you're unsure, as I specifically wrote the inverse of your own words:

Quote:
It is also true that all of the people who used their platforms to call him a cheat have also not been proven wrong.
My point is the sentence as written, particularly in context to your sentence as written. Shouldn't be a lot of gray area here, but I'll leave it to others to decide if I was being cryptic or ambiguous. (And mea culpa, apologies, etc. if I was.)

Not for nothing, when it comes to the hypothetical accusation that I like to sleep with dogs, it would be relatively easy for me to prove it wrong. (Okay, pretty difficult here in an online forum, but easy in the real world.) I'm allergic to dogs, there is zero evidence that I have ever slept with a dog, and plenty of evidence that i.e. my residence, and by extension, my actual place of sleep is and has been dog-free.

Still, that's a fair larger point on your part: there are plenty of hypothetical accusations you could have raised that would be nearly impossible for me to disprove. You just happened to stumble upon a poor example. Not your fault, you didn't know.

As for this...

Quote:
It isn't up to mike to prove them wrong.
It is now. The burden shifted on him when he became the plaintiff in a defamation action. When he was the defendant in the previous complaint, he had no legal obligation to prove his innocence. Rather, the burden was on Verstandig to prove that he cheated. But by flipping it around, Postle, or his representation, now has to show that "all the ppl" are guilty of making false accusations, which means he has to – wait for it – prove them wrong.

Also...

Quote:
In the United States if you accuse someone of a crime you need to be able to prove it or risk opening yourself up to lawsuit if you caused damages.
This is also a conditional, with the condition being "if you caused damages." Postle will have to prove that, too. Of course, this part should go without saying, but I thought I'd mention it, since you were previously "unsure" about the meaning of my previous post.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2020, 04:07 AM   #12448
Jay Why
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 947
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Re It isn't up to mike to prove them wrong.

It is now. The burden shifted on him when he became the plaintiff in a defamation action. When he was the defendant in the previous complaint, he had no legal obligation to prove his innocence. Rather, the burden was on Verstandig to prove that he cheated. But by flipping it around, Postle, or his representation, now has to show that "all the ppl" are guilty of making false accusations, which means he has to – wait for it – prove them wrong.
I have no doubt that Postle used some sort of transmission process to be shown or told what cards the other players had, or simply if he was ahead or behind in a hand. But there is no actual evidence to support that, bar the circumstantial mathematical odds against him winning so consistently in streamed hands, and performing so much better in those streamed hands than non-streamed hands. But given there is no other evidence against him, he can quite easily show the film from Stones, which his accusers use, and flip it round on them and say, "here is the evidence, there is no cheating going on here, the claims I cheated are therefore false".

This case is like a nurse being in a hospital where lots of babies die under her watch, which would raise suspicions, but with no firm evidence that is all there would be, suspicion, and so to call the nurse a murderer, in the same way that Postle was called a cheater, is dangerous, even if mathematically and circumstantially it is most probable.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2020, 03:05 PM   #12449
TimM
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TimM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,543
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
This case is like a nurse being in a hospital where lots of babies die under her watch
This case is like a nurse being in a hospital where lots of perfectly healthy babies die under her watch, and it's a huge statistical anomaly compared to death rates all other hospitals. Also there is hallway security camera footage showing her going into rooms and being alone with each baby before it died. But we don't know how she did it so we can't do or say anything, right?
TimM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2020, 03:34 PM   #12450
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
This case is like a nurse being in a hospital where lots of babies die under her watch, which would raise suspicions, but with no firm evidence that is all there would be, suspicion, and so to call the nurse a murderer, in the same way that Postle was called a cheater, is dangerous, even if mathematically and circumstantially it is most probable.
In that case, I wouldn't consider the nurse being a murderer as the most mathematically and circumstantially probable explanation. She could simply be horribly incompetent or negligent. (And yes, negligence can be criminal, but it does not necessarily constitute murder.)
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive