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Old 10-20-2020, 12:00 PM   #12301
Gzesh
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
I don't think we will see any action until he serves someone, and we haven't seen any evidence someone has been served.

This is what normal cases look like after service on Sac website:



This is what Postle case looks like:

Again, I do not practice in California, so my insight is very limited. However, there is a notation that a Summons was filed, so someone seems likely eventually to get or to already have been served.

Any insights from an actual California civil litigation attorney would be helpful.
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:40 PM   #12302
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Again, I do not practice in California, so my insight is very limited. However, there is a notation that a Summons was filed, so someone seems likely eventually to get or to already have been served.

Any insights from an actual California civil litigation attorney would be helpful.
What about my post suggests I am not a california civil litigator? Because I am, who has practiced my entire career (8 years) in Sacramento, California.

Postle has to file a proof of service of summons within 5 days of service.... hence I said he has not served anyone yet since he has not filed the proof of service.

He has 3 years to serve the parties so, but nobody said he may not do it the future. I just said he has not yet.

Just don't expect any anti-slapps or other quick motion work until he files a proof of service of summons.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:41 PM   #12303
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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If a single jury member is a poker fan it's a pretty sick case though. If you're even just a bit aware of poker it can change a lot considering how popular Daniel Negreanu is and what a poker god he's considered to most very casual fans/players. Try to tell a poker fan that Daniel Negreanu slandered Mike Postle when DNegs said Postle cheated. They'll prob take Negreanu's side
I'm sure Postle's attorneys understand how to use voire dire to prevent this from happening. If, that is, the suit lasts long enough to be brought before a jury.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:47 PM   #12304
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
How did Postle lose income?
From the cancellation of the Stones live stream, where he was making bank. (The evidence seems clear that he is a mediocre player in other games when the hole-card readers aren't running.)
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:29 PM   #12305
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Has this been done before or is common? File a suit and don't serve the defendants. Maybe it could prevent new Postle videos for a while.

Can you bring a suit that would cost you more to go to trial with than your expected win if it goes to trial, because it would cost multiple defendants a lot more in aggregate? Even if you have a really weak case and a weak claim for damages? Has that been done before or often?
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:19 PM   #12306
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
What about my post suggests I am not a california civil litigator? Because I am, who has practiced my entire career (8 years) in Sacramento, California.

Postle has to file a proof of service of summons within 5 days of service.... hence I said he has not served anyone yet since he has not filed the proof of service.

He has 3 years to serve the parties so, but nobody said he may not do it the future. I just said he has not yet.

Just don't expect any anti-slapps or other quick motion work until he files a proof of service of summons.
Glad to hear you are a California litigator.

What do you think about suing for damages arising from denial of an ability to make income consisting of gambling winnings, something it seems pretty clear cannot be sued for directly.

So far as I know, no one has been served as yet.

I do expect there will be fairly quick motions to dismiss filed once someone is served.

Last edited by Gzesh; 10-20-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:05 AM   #12307
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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What about my post suggests I am not a california civil litigator? Because I am, who has practiced my entire career (8 years) in Sacramento, California.
I assume you meant to pluralize "posts?" Because that particular post – meaning #12296 – doesn't suggest anything in either direction. (On the other hand, your overall posting history in this thread tells me you know the ins and outs about California civil law, which I greatly appreciate.)

But back to your post... how long does it typically take from that point (summons filed) until someone is served, let alone all of the various parties that we can expect to be served?

Just curious. I know legal proceedings can take quite a while in general, so I'm trying to get an idea of what inning we're in.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:32 AM   #12308
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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From the cancellation of the Stones live stream, where he was making bank. (The evidence seems clear that he is a mediocre player in other games when the hole-card readers aren't running.)
Postle your honor i can only make money on the stream table

Judge Why's that

Postle ????????
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:37 AM   #12309
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
He has 3 years to serve the parties so, but nobody said he may not do it the future. I just said he has not yet.

Just don't expect any anti-slapps or other quick motion work until he files a proof of service of summons.
3 years? I hope he doesn't wait til the last day! We at NVG deserve a quick and speedy trial!
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:17 PM   #12310
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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3 years? I hope he doesn't wait til the last day! We at NVG deserve a quick and speedy trial!
If the lawsuit is strategic, why not drag it out.
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:27 PM   #12311
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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If the lawsuit is strategic, why not drag it out.
Makes for an interesting backstory to Broome's supposed documentary. He is one of the creators of The Biggest Loser. Extra/artificial drama keeps audiences interested. Would not surprise me at all if this was the purpose of it. Build sympathy from viewership in attempt to garner public support or acceptance.
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:40 PM   #12312
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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If the lawsuit is strategic, why not drag it out.
Something tells me that Postle wouldn't really do well in the marshmallow test as a kid
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:26 PM   #12313
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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3 years? I hope he doesn't wait til the last day! We at NVG deserve a quick and speedy trial!
Maybe they will let it expire after 3 years. They know they don't have a case, but this will intimidate people from doing more Postle videos.
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Old 10-21-2020, 08:58 PM   #12314
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Maybe they will let it expire after 3 years. They know they don't have a case, but this will intimidate people from doing more Postle videos.
Backing everyone off was definitely one of the reasons they filed this case, and it's working. Whether or not they think they can succeed beyond that remains to be seen.
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:36 AM   #12315
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I found the closest analogy I have found to Mike Postle. I won't describe it too much, but look at this guy: Billy Mitchell.

This "Donkey Kong" perfect score player, beat the game of all kinds of records, and even had eye witnesses!

The thing that makes it like poker is that nobody can see the cheating - even eye witnesses who see his score being played. But he did it on a modified game, and only electronic nerds could figure it out.

"Last year the videogame record-keepers at Twin Galaxies revoked Billy Mitchell's entire lifetime's worth of videogame high scores after an online discussion argued videotapes of three of Mitchell's performances suggested they'd been achieved using a MAME emulator. Electronic Gaming Monthly reports that Mitchell has since streamed games on Twitch "obtaining scores equal to those that had been disputed, broadcast live from public venues," but the record-keepers also banned Mitchell for life from ever submitting any new high scores."

Tons of stories on google about Billy Mitchell: here is one on his first defamation lawsuits - https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/...case-to-court/

Quote:
Mitchell's defamation lawsuit—misfiled as "William James Mitchell vs. Twin Galexies, LLC [sic]" and not reported in previous press accounts—has been slowly building to a planned July anti-SLAPP hearing, where Twin Galaxies will make use of a statute that lets defendants quickly strike down lawsuits that threaten "public participation." Twin Galaxies says in court filings that its statements regarding Mitchell's scores were not defamatory and that finding in Mitchell's favor "would have chilling effects on the freedom of speech."



Here is a youtube video on a recent defamation lawsuit - last week! and it has the backstory back story- he sues everyone that calls him a cheater for defamation. In this instance, he's going after an Australian youtuber for $150,000 and a public apology. https://youtu.be/DNSJX1a2weo
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:45 AM   #12316
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Glad to hear you are a California litigator.

What do you think about suing for damages arising from denial of an ability to make income consisting of gambling winnings, something it seems pretty clear cannot be sued for directly.

So far as I know, no one has been served as yet.

I do expect there will be fairly quick motions to dismiss filed once someone is served.
I think damages is the most troubling part of the case. I had a client who was appearing in a stupid British bottom feeder tabloid click bait site (Daily Mail) due to run of the mill stuff but a tenuous connection to a stupid conspiracy theory, and we looked at the matter for defamation with defamation legal experts. The client was fuming and ready to sue.

The Defamation experts said that they only take employment cases, with clear provable damages... otherwise its not worth a potential jury verdict on the damages awarded for someone saying something bad about you. Although technically there may be defamation, a defamation action is typically expensive with limited financial payoff.

First, there must be causation. Damages must be proven to have resulted from the defamatory statements. There must be a cause and effect – damages resulting from the words. How did cheating cause Postle to lose income? 1 game closed (that would have closed due to covid anyway?) He can go play outside at numerous casinos in California today.

Secondly, juries will have difficulty ascertaining the financial impact of the damages. A business entity itself has no value for emotional distress. A reputation is hard to measure and prove to a jury.

In this era of crazy news cycle, will a jury says calling someone a cheater on twitter is really defamatory? I've seen 100s of crazier things said in 20 minutes i spent on twitter today.

In California, Anti-Slapp motion to strike are very strong- and they freeze discovery and entitle you to attorney fees. I imagine someone like ESPN and SVP would win easily.
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:50 AM   #12317
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
I assume you meant to pluralize "posts?" Because that particular post – meaning #12296 – doesn't suggest anything in either direction. (On the other hand, your overall posting history in this thread tells me you know the ins and outs about California civil law, which I greatly appreciate.)

But back to your post... how long does it typically take from that point (summons filed) until someone is served, let alone all of the various parties that we can expect to be served?

Just curious. I know legal proceedings can take quite a while in general, so I'm trying to get an idea of what inning we're in.
Usually they serve someone fast because Plaintiff wants to start discovery where memories are fresh and before the defendants destroy all the evidence. Also litigation is slow and takes years , by waiting you are just devaluing your payoff money. Major reason I've seen to file and wait is to beat a Statute of Limitations.

Here, well does Postle want to start discovery? I guess this is a case in reverse where Postle wants the evidence destroyed LOL

Or did he file to put pressure to settle? To chill speech? To beat the statute of limitations?

Even 1 defendant seeing this case through to trial costs more than the entire amount Postle cheated on the show. The cost of defending a CHEAP personal injury case jury trial for insurance defense in Sacramento is $150,000 + $40,000 in costs. Lawyer rates are probably $200-$400 a hour for insurance rates.

On an unrelated note, really curious about Haralabos in this lawsuit. He works for the Dallas Mavericks now and is not an American citizen. Thought he lived in Monaco or something.

Last edited by Outoftime44444; 10-22-2020 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 10-22-2020, 01:28 AM   #12318
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
In California, Anti-Slapp motion to strike are very strong- and they freeze discovery and entitle you to attorney fees. I imagine someone like ESPN and SVP would win easily.
Can Anti-SLAPP be started even before the defendants are served? Especially for the sake of the individuals. Who would want this hanging over their head for up to three years?
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:45 AM   #12319
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
I found the closest analogy I have found to Mike Postle. I won't describe it too much, but look at this guy: Billy Mitchell.

This "Donkey Kong" perfect score player, beat the game of all kinds of records, and even had eye witnesses!

The thing that makes it like poker is that nobody can see the cheating - even eye witnesses who see his score being played. But he did it on a modified game, and only electronic nerds could figure it out.

"Last year the videogame record-keepers at Twin Galaxies revoked Billy Mitchell's entire lifetime's worth of videogame high scores after an online discussion argued videotapes of three of Mitchell's performances suggested they'd been achieved using a MAME emulator. Electronic Gaming Monthly reports that Mitchell has since streamed games on Twitch "obtaining scores equal to those that had been disputed, broadcast live from public venues," but the record-keepers also banned Mitchell for life from ever submitting any new high scores."

Tons of stories on google about Billy Mitchell: here is one on his first defamation lawsuits - https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/...case-to-court/






Here is a youtube video on a recent defamation lawsuit - last week! and it has the backstory back story- he sues everyone that calls him a cheater for defamation. In this instance, he's going after an Australian youtuber for $150,000 and a public apology. https://youtu.be/DNSJX1a2weo

Even if Billy Mitchell lied about world records, the guy is the real deal when it comes to GOAT classic video game player. Multiple games. It is equivalent of being the #1 player at every version of poker from stud to PLO to 5-card draw.

To be #1 at those games required specialized and dedication. He is a born natural.

Probably took his fame a little too far and age catches up. Much easier to stay at the top in poker.

Postle isn’t anywhere near Billy Mitchell in talent. Billy Mitchell is equivalent to Hellmuth. Nobody heard of Postle until now.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:40 PM   #12320
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Thats why it will never go to trial with all these defendants and all these lawyers.... If the cases ever does go to trial, it would likely cost $200,000 in attorney fees PER defendant, plus at least $25,000 - $50,000 in costs per defendant (as a conservative estimate, based on insurance defense lawyer rates)..... and a jury could literally just award a $1,000 verdict.

He wasn't fired from a job and he can still play poker.

Defamation cases need a real job with provable income.
it isn't possible to claim loss of any kind of income except employment income? not a just country you live in.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:45 PM   #12321
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

is no one else thinking this is a draft that was never meant to be filed? seems like an odd strategy, to sue but give months warning.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:49 PM   #12322
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by dude45 View Post
Postle your honor i can only make money on the stream table

Judge Why's that

Postle ????????
your honor I'm a paiah and I can't play anywhere, due to this slander I am harassesed everywhere.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:49 PM   #12323
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It has been filed.

None of the plaintiffs have been served yet, apparently, though.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:07 PM   #12324
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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It has been filed.

None of the defendants have been served yet, apparently, though.
fyp.
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Old 10-22-2020, 04:08 PM   #12325
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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it isn't possible to claim loss of any kind of income except employment income? not a just country you live in.
Yes, you can claim any type of damages you want, but claiming is a lot different than proving.

By the time the defense subpoenas every record from any source of income claimed, deposed any bosses/coworkers/co-players about Postle's money making ability, hired economists and other experts to bring reality to his claims, dug up every bit of caselaw to reduce damages, and brings up his failure to mitigate damages (by finding another job or poker game), the claimed damages get put into reality if a jury ever sees them.

Also the doctrine of unclean hands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_hands

Quote:
Clean hands, sometimes called the clean hands doctrine, unclean hands doctrine, or dirty hands doctrine,[1] is an equitable defense in which the defendant argues that the plaintiff is not entitled to obtain an equitable remedy because the plaintiff is acting unethically or has acted in bad faith with respect to the subject of the complaint—that is, with "unclean hands".[2] The defendant has the burden of proof to show the plaintiff is not acting in good faith. The doctrine is often stated as "those seeking equity must do equity" or "equity must come with clean hands". This is a matter of protocol, characterised by A. P. Herbert in Uncommon Law by his fictional Judge Mildew saying (as Herbert says, "less elegantly"), "A dirty dog will not have justice by the court"
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