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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-09-2009, 10:04 PM   #2001
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Rek View Post
You mean looking for...........................please excuse the swear word in this thread............................evidence.

Somehow I don't think he will return with that.
I dont think he will return here ever, but still he could share hand historys and give em to "guys" for a close analyzis. Just look at his post count since 2005, it doesnt look like hes using the forum to much. But still ...
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #2002
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Mokers View Post
The turn of a card is ultimately not random, or even realistically simulated random.
I don't think random means what you think it means, or produces the outcome distribution that you think it is supposed to.
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:01 AM   #2003
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
I dont think he will return here ever, but still he could share hand historys and give em to "guys" for a close analyzis. Just look at his post count since 2005, it doesnt look like hes using the forum to much. But still ...

I'm proud of you
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:28 AM   #2004
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Mokers View Post
Anyone who has played Party Poker for a considerable amount of time will know what I'm saying here.

Party Poker's engine fixes the outcome of cards in cash games to benefit the company in two ways:

- Generates more rake ("action flops" inducing more interest in hands)

- Keeps more people playing (and more rake donated) by levelling the playing field. Rewarding bad play/players with "Miracle" flop/turn/river cards time and time again, against the overarching odds, keeping their bankroll intact.

If the turn of the card was absolutely random then there'd be a lot less players and a lot less fish. The site would be busto.

The turn of a card is ultimately not random, or even realistically simulated random.

I'm not going to go into it in more detail than that. Any regular who isn't kidding himself can back me up here, or leave it. I've played on the site for over 4 years now, and for a considerable amount of that time it's been my only source of income (0.25/0.50 right up to 10/20). I'm going to continue playing Party Poker as I have done since I was 18 because I'm familiar with how the software (albeit corrupt) works, and because the competition is still shockingly poor.

Cheers
I was a regular there for a long time .25-.5 up to 1/2 NL 6 Max.

I know exactly what your talking about.

My mate quit Party because of a ridiculous beat.

It was an 800$ pot and he got it all in on the flop with JJ vs 8 6 on a;

8 J 6 flop

Guess what the turn and river brought........... 6 and.........6.

He hasnt played Online poker to this day and that was around 3 years ago.

My last session on party was brutal. I had 2x100NL tables going and twice I got into pots with K J suited on both tables within 15 minutes of each other and floped the nut straight and got busted getting it in on the turn still with the nuts.

First One: KJ vs 33

Flop A Q 10

Bet Call (Seriously wtf is he calling 33 for?)

Turn 3

Bet Raise All in Pot $200ish

River 3

Yes he has 22% chance to win on the turn but only 3% on the flop.

Ok bad beats happen I say. 15 mins later on the other table;

K J vs Jd 9d

Flop Ad Qc 10s

Bet Call.

Turn 3d

Bet Raise, I shove and he Insta calls?????

River 6d LOL!!!!!!

Again the guy has 6% on the flop then 20% on turn.

Serious BS I never played there again.
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:12 AM   #2005
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Ok bad beats happen I say. 15 mins later on the other table;

K J vs Jd 9d

Flop Ad Qc 10s

Bet Call.

Turn 3d

Bet Raise, I shove and he Insta calls?????

River 6d LOL!!!!!!

Again the guy has 6% on the flop then 20% on turn.
Try being more results oriented here. You really can't think of any reason he'd be calling on the flop?
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:41 AM   #2006
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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I'm proud of you

hahaha
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:44 AM   #2007
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Try being more results oriented here. You really can't think of any reason he'd be calling on the flop?
I know the reason, and i probably would call as well in position. Openeded str draw + bacdoor flush draw ?
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:52 AM   #2008
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Try being more results oriented here. You really can't think of any reason he'd be calling on the flop?
I didnt say anything about the flop call moron.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:56 AM   #2009
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Yeah, "incredibad" beats happen from time to time.

i remember only my worst bad beat, i had 55 and called PF raise. flop came 656, op c-bets i re-raise, he shoves and i call. he shows AQ and has pretty much 2% chance to win, turn comes 6 and river is too 6. we both had quads but he had better kicker. i wasn't like "WTF? are you fkn kidding me? i'm gonna kill my cat!", it's just an average day in online poker...
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:34 AM   #2010
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Yeah, "incredibad" beats happen from time to time.

i remember only my worst bad beat, i had 55 and called PF raise. flop came 656, op c-bets i re-raise, he shoves and i call. he shows AQ and has pretty much 2% chance to win, turn comes 6 and river is too 6. we both had quads but he had better kicker. i wasn't like "WTF? are you fkn kidding me? i'm gonna kill my cat!", it's just an average day in online poker...
My worse bad beat this year was (atleast where i had most EV to win) :
I raised AQos from the cut off, bb calls. Flop AJ9 rainbow, he checks i make my cbet. Player was really lose, so i couldnt put him on any specific hand range, but anyway. He decided to checkraise me. Now i completely outfited AJ out of his range, so as any pair. I was bit scared about A9, but decided that A9 is only 1 hand that beats in his bb completing range so i reraised all in. He called with A10d. I was in good shape, 87% to win a hand, but .. the turn was 10 i was omg, please give me K J or Q - but non of them shoved up, and i was so pissed. . Incredible, but these kind of hands are costing me tournaments all the time.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:33 AM   #2011
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

BBV, y'all.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 04-10-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:59 AM   #2012
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
I had 2x100NL tables going and twice I got into pots with K J suited on both tables within 15 minutes of each other and floped the nut straight and got busted getting it in on the turn still with the nuts.
KJ, huh?
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:35 PM   #2013
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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I didnt say anything about the flop call moron.
Well his turn call makes even more sense, so what was your point posting that hand?
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:37 PM   #2014
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

^^^^^^^
you don't take those two hands, coupled with the hands his friend described, as irrefutable evidence of unsavory business practices?
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:55 PM   #2015
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Well his turn call makes even more sense, so what was your point posting that hand?
No it doesnt its a terrible turn call basically hoping for a diamond. He was drawing dead on the flop except to runner runner diamond and K for a split.
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:57 PM   #2016
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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^^^^^^^
you don't take those two hands, coupled with the hands his friend described, as irrefutable evidence of unsavory business practices?
Who said anything about irrefutable proof? Not me!

It was enough for me and my friend never to use Party Poker again.

Are there any Party regulars that wana give their opinion?

Those 2 hands were 3% and 6% on the flop yet they ve played about as bad as possible and been rewarded.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:11 PM   #2017
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Those 2 hands were 3% and 6% on the flop yet they ve played about as bad as possible and been rewarded.
Not 0% and 0% then? Cos they are they are the only percentages that would give your ramblings any relevance whatsoever.

I think I'm gonna look in my database for the freakiest hand I can find and then post it here to help corroborate your theories...

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 04-10-2009 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Actually I don't think I'll bother because it would be MEANINGLESS
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:20 PM   #2018
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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No it doesnt its a terrible turn call basically hoping for a diamond. He was drawing dead on the flop except to runner runner diamond and K for a split.
Again, be more results oriented.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:21 PM   #2019
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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No it doesnt its a terrible turn call basically hoping for a diamond. He was drawing dead on the flop except to runner runner diamond and K for a split.
he didn't know that - it wasn't unreasonable to think that a K or 8 would've been good on the turn, and the backdoor flush draw didn't hurt either. I've seen stuff like that live numerous times. It's really not the smoking gun you seem to think it is. That's fine if it convinced you to leave Party Poker, however I'd be surprised if those two hands you're telling us about would influence others to make the same decision.

Also, have you never gotten lucky on the river (or flop or turn)? I know I have. I think it's rather convenient that you neglect mentioning those instances. Is that another case of when "fish" get lucky it's rigged, but if YOU'RE the guy hitting a "miracle" then it's poker?

I heard sometimes ring toss games at carnivals have people trying to throw rings that are too small to fit over the objects which they're aiming at. I'm not certain of it, and I don't go to carnivals with my tape measure, but I simply choose not to play those games. And I definitely don't walk around the midway shouting accusations of crooked behavior because I don't know it for sure, which is also known as slander.

I don't go to carnival game internet forums to complain about how I'm being cheated or berate those who enjoy the games.

It doesn't bother me that folks don't think they get a fair shake at online poker, but I just don't get why they keep complaining about it to people who are satisfied they are. To me, that is more like the behavior of someone with an agenda than that of those who disagree with that theory. We were here first, you came to our place to tell us your opinions and we chose to stay anyway. Why would y'all keep bothering us? We're perfectly happy here in our ignorant bliss. You can think of us as naive if you want, but why would you waste your time trying to convince us we're wrong? That's what zealots do. Go to a mosque and tell the worshipers there they should accept Jesus died for their sins and see what kind of reception you get. Perhaps you get a polite "no thanks" at first, but if you continued to linger and harass them it's probably not gonna end well.

You were sure Party Poker was rigged a few years ago, so you quit - good for you! But you think every other site is too, and you were just playing the other day. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

I respect your opinion that you are suspicious of the industry. I request you respect the opinion of the regulars here in the Internet Poker Forum who disagree. No new ground is being covered, and for better or for worse, won't be until someone provides (gasp!) evidence. It's just speculation, rumors and selective memory with a side order of sore losing until then.

You've made your position clear, I hear where you're coming from, but you're not gonna convert me and I'm not gonna convert you. Please don't be like those "God Hates ****" people with their signs designed just to provoke arguments and controversy. Nothing good is going to come out of it.

Last edited by Markusgc; 04-10-2009 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:38 PM   #2020
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Markusgc, what a pointless post. ^
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:42 PM   #2021
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Rounding4Rent, what a worthless account.
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:00 PM   #2022
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

rofl
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:24 PM   #2023
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Re: POKERSTARS IS JUICED UP LIKE A ****

OMG, OMG, OMG NOOOOOOWAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:34 PM   #2024
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Re: POKERSTARS IS JUICED UP LIKE A ****

Feel better now, sunshine?
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:35 PM   #2025
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Re: POKERSTARS IS JUICED UP LIKE A ****

OK
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