LOL. Most people that do this kind of thing go to jail. Guess what... their families find out. It becomes a matter of public record. I don't see any reason why your family SHOULDN'T know about this behavior in case you ask them to lend you money or something.

oh and gary...i forgot to say i'm sorry for attacking your integrity

me too gary, im sorry

This whole thread was one huge April fools joke right???

seriously - swindling people out of thousands of dollars is called fraud which means jail - cheaters getting off light itt

lol i just read the cliffs....amazing stuff.. i love this community/forum lol

jalex=godlike judge obv

jalex should be like a 2p2 sports agent of prop bet judging..demand a high percentage for a fair bet lol

IF you talk about the number of posts ppl have in a thread, you just have to click on the number which stands under "replies". (not in the thread but in the forum part, where all threads are listed.)

How much will gary lose in ev from his sne run?
Will stars seize everything they have there or will they let them cash out before banning them?

Jesus murphy an intruiging read ... 5hours later

I would like to see that this thread has been nothing but an extremely elaborate April Fool's day joke pulled off by Jalex, Gary, and RoSeeker.

Jalex did a superb job which was possible due to Blackize's good decision to get him involved in the bet (based on Terp's excellent suggestion!).

Oh and I don't think anyone was really worried because bangwire seemed very reputable but barkfire was actually put in an awkward spot and didn't hesitate to do the only right thing in this situation. So probs to Barewire for that also

Very entertaining thread. Lots of drama and villains got caught in the end!

Only thing this thread lacks is another post from NoMeansNo. One by one supporters of OP got taken down as evidence got overwhelming. But questions remains if the most hardcore of them all is still convinced of OP's innocence? NoMeansNo to who should we ship!?

Great job Jalex I feel kinda stupid for doubting you now, maybe just that's my nature that I trust people are honest in general and extraordinary proof need to be provided to say : "guilty!". You did extraordinary job in providing the proof and shutting down all the doubters (like me).

Thanks for doing this. I wasn't involved on any side but it's good feeling to have people liek you around in poker community. Props !

Btw, not outing their names seems to be very bad idea to me.
I mean, they deserve some kind of punishment, right ? I am not into assraping and harrasing stuff but outing the names seems like the only fair thing to do.

Thread has got boring, need drama bomb.

couple thoughts:

1) thank you, jalex. props for a selfless and outstanding effort.

2) if judges are to be compensated, both sides bear responsibility here. gary had interest in an honest front as did the bettors, since he needed to provide it to attract action. retrospective one-sided payment smells a bit fishy to me, especially since i know jalex (and mentioned this when i recommended him) and recommended him and won. note too at least wrathsunanimous took a prior look at this and walked away convinced things were legit.

3) state or federal prosecutors in IL might be interested in charging gary_neville with various acts of fraud.

This is a very good point. As far as the bettors are concerned, Gary + friends basically freerolled this bet; despite having been caught cheating, the bettors are only getting in return what they should have won anyway (less, actually, because they've been kind enough to donate portions of their winnings to Jalex for his excellent detective work). The only punishment Gary + friends are taking (reputation + whatever Stars hands out) are completely peripheral to the people who were actually harmed here, which are the people who bet against him.

While the appropriate amount is difficult to determine, it seems pretty clear to me that if these guys actually give a **** about making things "right" rather than just typing up apologies and hoping they fly,

a.) Gary + friends owe the bettors money on top of what they lost in the bet, and
b.) Gary + friends owe Jalex money for his time (which had to be spent because of their fraudulent behavior).



I imagine that any prop bet like this that ever happens again (if there is one) would have to include significant "cheating insurance" money to be escrowed by both sides that will only not be returned to them if evidence of cheating is uncovered; otherwise, the incentive to freeroll your opponent by cheating is too high, and this bet has shown us that randoms on the internets can't be trusted as much as we would think.

In full disclosure, I'm roommates w/ terp but I have no financial interest in any of this.

+1 ... this is actually a very good idea for future prop bets. Can't believe that this hasn't been implemented before. If there is one positive thing we can learn from this prop bet it would be to add this kind of ruling in the future.

Of course this will not prevent cheating 100%, but it will certainly punish those that are caught cheating.

Sadly, I see no chance of getting any extra money from Gary + friends after all these events. Pokerstars will have the last word here and hopefully they will find a good punishment. Besides that all one can say is lesson learned, implement the new ruling in future bets and move on ...

I lol'd.

EPIC thread. Over the past night have read through the entire thing. While working - so behind but SO worth it. Loved the drama bombs.

There's a ton I want to say, but its already been said.

Jalex for President of Earth - if I had a stake in this I'd def be sending him some of my monies.
RoSeeker and Gary - gtfo.

Epic DN shop there.

Could be a legal minefield , However , would the legislative process be based where the crime/fraud took place i.e wherever gary/roseeker actually was when he was playing ....and since it appears roseeker was at university in the uk at the time , he could be looking at either fraud or conspiracy to defraud charges here in the UK. I'm not a lawyer but have a vague idea i read about gambling debts not being legally enforceable here in the UK. But this isn't a debt , it was a fraud.

Obviously out their names so people can protect themselves from these people in the future. It only makes sense. Don't harass them, don't infringe on their rights, but give their names to the public at least.

There are apparently various UK laws which a jury could find that these guys broke. Nothing open and shut by all accounts but there's enough evidence here of various aspects of intent to deceive and defraud that the police could at least take a look at it. Obtaining monies by deception is no joke.

Iam pretty sure that is against 2+2 policy

100% agreed.

Can't believe everyone fell for this.

April fools!

I havn't read this epic thread in its entirety but I have a couple of points to make.

Firstly I in no way endorse what Gary did - but can to some extent understand it.

I have seen prop bets like this happen alot over the years and to be honest I have never really understood it. To be honest, people who are prepared to bet against someone should weigh in the % of risk associated with cheating into the prop itself. I have done some prop bets myself in the past - but have always done it amongst people I know and trust. I cant believe that some people are naive enough to put so much money on the line - up against someone who they dont know and really have no real means of tracking properly. I mean in reality, if Gary had of actually done a better job of the chip dumping he could of gotten away with it. The harsh reality of it is that people do alot of uncharacteristic things when their back is up against the wall. Again, I hate cheats and I in no way am trying to reduce the blame of Gary and co - but I think people are ******ed if they are willing to bet this much money and believe that everyone is just going to be 100% legit.