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**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] **** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH]

03-31-2010 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexand42
Outside of this thread, I posted it in my initial disclosure.



+1



Haha, yeah, but the problem is my integrity isn't for sale. :P
More importantly, you should start quoting a schedule for % vig to jalexinate prop bets in the future.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerpingu
Holy f*****g sh*t, respect for this post of you.

First I didn't believe Gary was guilthy, now i do 100% :-|. UL OP... you tried

hahahahah, you need to keep reading before you post sir.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexand42
Haha, yeah, but the problem is my integrity isn't for sale. :P



jalex = internet crusader of justice = 2+2 hero

seriously, well done sir

edit: and for anyone asking for cliffs, they're edited into op
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexand42
Outside of this thread, I posted it in my initial disclosure.
Sorry, I have to admit, that while I appreciate all the work you did, I have ADD and I sort of skim through the long posts (but atleast I don't spam for cliffs!), so I missed that part. It's the main reason I don't own my own business.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:22 PM
Jalex getting payed for savin the moneyz?
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker
It was poorly thought out. It was an impulsive mistake. Please understand that people do stupid things. Like I said, one lie was used to cover another because we felt like we had so much to lose, and we lost sight of the entire thing. Pretty stupid, yeah.

I believe everything has been explained now. If there is anything more I'd like to answer it and explain it for the sake of clarity and closure, and then leave the poker world/community and do some serious self reflection.
perhaps you could say whether any further accounts were used for chip dumping and whether either of you is /are/were (just to cover the grey areas)connected to the rongrong account.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend
Looking back on this, how stupid did you think the online poker community was?

and how stupid do you think they are now?
I think the fact that a lot of people were jumping on this prop bet when it was clearly shady from the beginning speaks to, if not stupidity, gullibility.

It's just the presence of BlackIze, CarTire, and, of course, Jalex, that covers for them.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:25 PM
Somebody is going to be the real hero of this thread and fire up the comprehensive cliffs, including naming names/amounts involved for each, smoking gun hand histories/quotes/etc. Real names for the Google, too.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker
It was poorly thought out. It was an impulsive mistake. Please understand that people do stupid things. Like I said, one lie was used to cover another because we felt like we had so much to lose, and we lost sight of the entire thing. Pretty stupid, yeah.

I believe everything has been explained now. If there is anything more I'd like to answer it and explain it for the sake of clarity and closure, and then leave the poker world/community and do some serious self reflection.
I have a question for you, Ro.

When you guys were making the initial thread, and the odds were changed from 2-1 to 3-1, and there was no camera, and barewire was going to be the only escrow (his reputation is clearly above reproach at this point, but at the time things seemed shady), were all of those things done in order to help you cheat, if needed? (Especially the camera portion of the prop)

Enjoy the fact that you were on skype the entire time, but justin.tv would have been too much for his archaic PC.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Is telling your family you scammed people and play poker going overboard according to your moral compass ?
I really don't know, and it seems like a trick question, but I'd go with no. There are criminals who choose to not let their family know, and I don't believe they should be forced to. They know I am capable of mistakes already, and it would only hurt them to know what's happened; it won't make them realize things about me they hadn't before (it's not like suddenly now they realize I am a bloodthirsty murderer that they need to stay away from, etc). I feel that most people are more capable of similar mistakes than a lot of the posters admit.

Quote:
perhaps you could say whether any further accounts were used for chip dumping and whether either of you is /are/were (just to cover the grey areas)connected to the rongrong account.
Quote:
I do not know who rongrong is. I believe this is a random fish. Only StoppedClock and Breeezzz accounts were used to chipdump.

I don't have any other 2+2 accounts. I believe I will be banned after this is finally concluded.
Additionally, Nostalgica was used to transfer 150 to Breeezzz a week before the propbet, but it was not with the intention to cheat. I've had numerous trades with other players, but they were all unrelated.

Quote:
Looking back on this, how stupid did you think the online poker community was?

and how stupid do you think they are now?
Like I said, it was not thought out, just thatched together. We didn't think "hey, let's scam these people". We just thought "if we did this, we get a but more edge without doing much!" Not saying it is less wrong, just that we're not some sort of masterminds, clearly, just fools who haven't thought clearly about what we're doing or the seriousness of it.

Quote:
When you guys were making the initial thread, and the odds were changed from 2-1 to 3-1, and there was no camera, and barewire was going to be the only escrow (his reputation is clearly above reproach at this point, but at the time things seemed shady), were all of those things done in order to help you cheat, if needed? (Especially the camera portion of the prop)

Enjoy the fact that you were on skype the entire time, but justin.tv would have been too much for his archaic PC.
I did not help make this thread. We did not seriously contemplate cheating until fairly late, as I detailed in my post. We just got overly excited near the end with the amount of action, but before I did not pay that much notice (I still feel that 3:1 is a very good odds, and while we've dumped 3BI, you will see that OP was 5BI below EV so it's not some sort of impossible bet that we made him win. EV-wise we only increased his expected winrate somewhat. He could have easily lost even if we dumped a lot more buyins and he could have easily won even if we did nothing.

He had no experience with setting up webcam. I believe he genuinely just didn't want to bother and didn't want to show his face. Barewire was chosen because it was the most respectable person OP knew well that he thought might help. We did not intend to cheat from the start, and very well might not have cheated at all. We were on the edge, didn't think it through, and a little run-bad on his part gave the motivation to just do it.

Last edited by RoSeeker; 03-31-2010 at 01:35 PM.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker
I really don't know, and it seems like a trick question, but I'd go with no. There are criminals who choose to not let their family know, and I don't believe they should be forced to. They know I am capable of mistakes already, and it would only hurt them to know what's happened; it won't make them realize things about me they hadn't before (it's not like suddenly now they realize I am a bloodthirsty murderer that they need to stay away from, etc). I feel that most people are more capable of similar mistakes than a lot of the posters admit.

The disappointment and sadness you caused them might deter you from doing these things in the future is my thinking.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:36 PM
Great work. I think I picked up on his tone in the beginning and said guilty so I am obviously the true winner of this...but seriously, I can't believe you have spent so much of your time on this. It is very impressive to see someone do this for nothing (although I'm sure bettors will slip you something which you probably won't accept). Anyway, I think it would very harsh if Gary lost his 20k roll on stars - maybe he should donate 5-10k to a very worthy charity, withdraw the rest and have his accounts locked and ip banned. Then everyone is a winner (in a sense).

Also, I haven't seen enough apologies from the idiots who were talking (spamming) about innocence and mob mentality.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:41 PM
I agree that deterrent and punishment are important... I really don't know about these things. I think morals and such are so subjective. I just hope you believe me when I say that the threat of disappointing them is enough to make me absolutely wake me up and just want to get away the whole thing, not care about the money at all, even before we were outed (not enough to come clean because we thought if we did people might spitefully hurt us anyway, and we're just overall scared and not thinking straight). I definitely don't want to ever risk something like this ever again, and it's been a huge strain. I haven't gotten anything done the past two weeks or so, just mope around, can't sleep well at all. I've really suffered and learned from this.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearz
Not to accuse OP of anything, but a prop like this has tons of room for trickery. A couple friends dumping a couple buyins to him almost ensures victory.
I never followed this thread from day to day at all, so just yesterday I decided to start reading the last few pages after jalex posted the cliff notes... but how ironic is this post bearz made 64 posts into this whole prop bet thread? Maybe he should be given a cookie basket as well for predicting the future.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary_Neville
Firstly, I want to apologize to everyone for having this affair drag on as far as it already and for all the trouble it caused everyone involved, including judges and jalex. Secondly, I want to personally apologize to Jalex for having appear to attack him in parts of this thread with my half assed attempts to disprove his arguments.

I am going to start from the beginning. I am far from a winning poker player, at least not by the strictest definition of it. However, I am nevertheless a poker player whose confident in my own ability to one day recover and beat 200nl (as I've beat 100nl), may it be improving on my game or recovering from running better in AIEV. In light of this, I made up this prop bet because I thought I was never getting a better time to do it in terms of getting steep odds in my favor base on my recent -30BI downswing whatever it was. And contrary to a lot of what all of you may think, I am far from flat out broke and I have a more than big enough bankroll to shoulder the 2.5k loss that I would have to incur if I lose this prop bet. Therefore, I had my incentives for setting up this prop and originally wanted to win this fair and square (obv none of this will really matter).

Now let’s get straight to the main point. I know nothing will justify all my actions during and after the prop but firstly I’m just going to summarize by saying that I made a couple of misjudgments that I will regret forever. I am only 19 years old and I was awake for a long time, and when there was that much money on the line, I snapped and made a mistake that I will regret for the future. Simply, I let my own silly naivety and desperation pluck into me just when I was stuck money. Nevertheless, we all know that whatever I say now can be no justification for the chip dump and I hold my hand up and take full responsibility. And for those who want to call me a scum/scammer/cheater for that, you have all the right to do so and nothing I say or do right now can change that.

Also, I want to let everyone know that the reason I tried to drag this on as long as possible was not because I really wanted to win the prop that badly (with 2.5k up against BBV’s 7.5k on the line or whatever it was) but because I wanted to salvage whatever I had/have left behind in my Stars account because of my SNE chase and whatnot, which is again no justification.

Finally, let this be a valuable lesson learned for everyone involved, with all the issues that may arise due to the nature of this prop. I hope this will set a standard benchmark for those who want to initiate prop bets of this nature, for those who wants to bet against prop bets of this nature, as well as for those who has ill-considered methods in trying to gain an unfair advantage (perhaps sticky this as a warning to future prop bettors). Needless to say, I – on my end – have fully learned from my mistake, and will be paying for my mistake further than what I’ve already lost in the prop bet including losing my 2p2 rep (if any in the first place) forever and further repercussions.

And to Barewire, you did what was right to have chosen moral integrity over friendship.

With this, I want to put an end to this thread. Bettors won fair and square (and should have their money shipped ASAP) and Jalex did a terrific job to uncover the truth. And finally, just tying the loose ends, I will now accept any further repercussions judged by Stars and will expect to pay the full price of my mistake.

Again, I am really sorry for all the mess that I've caused and I will quietly accept anything anyone of you would like to say to me.



/thread
the thing is you didnt just randomly decide to chip dump when you were stuck late in the bet. you guys planned out the cheating, and by the admission of your friend / accomplice cheated from the getgo. to try and blame it on being up for a long time and say omg i was desperate and sorry kind of skims over the fact you posted a premeditated scam on these forums. on the bright side u wont get to bitch about how bad u run in stars reg thread so thats something!
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derekadi
Cliffs on what seems a good story? 40 pages though
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrington1
sorry OP , tried to be on your side but all the 2k posters are ganging up on me and im scared now . hope you get your money .
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamScaper
I know it may be a given, but where there any stipulations in the rules saying he couldn't chip dump or cheat? If it specifically didn't say he couldn't cheat, then he won!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNOIZE
God guys, how can you accuse a highly paid, Premiership footballer of pulling a scam in a prop bet were the $$ are meaningless to him. Get a clue kids!!!
yw
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 01:56 PM
pretty stupid gary...not much else to say

glad blackize and jalex took the time to look into this all and investigate. thanks again guys
$800 received from barewire. thanks for escrowing

Last edited by hellokittery; 03-31-2010 at 02:08 PM.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
All my escrowed money was just sent to the bettors who booked with me.
Confirmed.

Will post some thoughts on the whole matter later on... Didn't get around to reading all of it yet. But: wow.

And: Congrats jalex, very impressive work. Where do you want your cookie basket?
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaedin
What personal information do people want released? Just real life names? People were saying before, 'you cant compare a criminal proceeding to this, because we have to police ourselves', well, I don't think you can compare punishments with each other, either. They are going to lose the bet, they are going to be shamed (SHAMED) in the online poker community, they will probably lose their stars accounts and funds... That's a pretty significant punishment if you ask me (you didn't).

Posting anything more personal than RL name (I don't even know if people have more personal, like family/friends names, phone number, address, school, whatever) seems like its over stepping a line.
Yes, only their names (like in several earlier scamming cases). Anyway I don't really believe in punishment, releasing their names is to warn others, not to punish them. Of course it works both ways, but punishment is not the reason I think their names should be outed.

I don't really like the idea of having big "XXX is scammer" websites and such, it is clear enough if you can find out about this scam if you google their names, there is no need to make this any more public.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker
I think morals and such are so subjective.
clearly.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:27 PM
seriously why is ROSEEKER still allowed to post on 2+2? this guy confessed to help cheat honest people out of their hard-earned money yet other people have been banned for far less. come on mods seems like some of you might be friends with this dirt bag and/or condone his actions.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truejeff
seriously why is ROSEEKER still allowed to post on 2+2? this guy confessed to help cheat honest people out of their hard-earned money yet other people have been banned for far less. come on mods seems like some of you might be friends with this dirt bag and/or condone his actions.
lol, come on.

Reality is, it would be better if they were NOT allowed to create some new anonymous account, better if they are REQUIRED to keep their current accounts with a tag of CHEATER/SCAMMER.

Plus, I want them to be able to post what Stars does to them, lol.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folding Soup
Cliffs:




I feel bad this whole thing happened, but I am very impressed with BBV(Mostly Jalex obv), outting cheaters once again.
Winners of the prop bet should give some % to jalex.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexand42
lol, come on.

Reality is, it would be better if they were NOT allowed to create some new anonymous account, better if they are REQUIRED to keep their current accounts with a tag of CHEATER/SCAMMER.

Plus, I want them to be able to post what Stars does to them, lol.
point taken
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote
03-31-2010 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMa7
Winners of the prop bet should give some % to jalex.
They'd need someone to out jalex's SN and give him the money against his will, as jalex has said he doesn't want any money from anyone for this.
**** 30k hands in a day + profit on 200nl 6m prop bet*** [See confessions of cheating. MH] Quote

      
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