he scares me...but i like it.

Found the post, here's gary:

What do you need room for some ****ty thread that will be locked?

your forum?

Amazing work outing these scammers the 2+2 police do another successful job we are all lucky to have people like Jalex willing to put in the time and effort to unearth the truth so thanks to all the people that made this happen pat yourself on the back.

Gary and Roseeker that was a dirty stunt you pulled and I am glad you guys got caught hopefully having all your funds seized and your reputation/name train wrecked will be enough for you to learn from your mistakes.

link to cliffs?

Check first post..... At the top of it.

making dumb bets shouldnt be rewarded imo . this should teach everyone a good lesson.

hmm..maybe not lol

link to first post?

Nice name. Good luck explaining www.bjornliisascammer.net with "it wasn't me! there must be thousands of Bjorn Li's out there!".

So I've been thinking about the endgame of this...and I wanted to come back to these posts...

#1, You're welcome. Obviously, the amount of time I ultimately invested sucks alot compared to other areas of my life I'd rather spend it. But...I definitely wanted to get to the truth, either way.




Now to the meat of what I've been thinking...obviously it's a little hard to apply in hindsight here, but I think this bears STRONGLY on the future of prop bets, especially of this type...

Looking back at this situation, the end result DEFINITELY means the villans potentially freerolled the bet by cheating (pending Stars' actions). This means that the people harmed here:

1. The original line was wrong and the bettors were cheated due to the angle shoot, REGARDLESS of the actual result.

2. I got 'cheated' out of at least 40 hours of my time.

So it definitely seems like in an ideal world, villans would be required to make up for both #1 and #2 somehow. It'd be great if Stars did this, or if Stars left villans alone if they were required to or 'did the right thing'.

In the future, I think it definitely bears alot of thought on future prop bets, because cheating CAN happen both ways. What if a bettor tried to cheat this prop?

Ultimately prop bets like this suck and probably shouldn't happen because they are pretty tough to police. As stupid as these guys were, they ALMOST got away with it.

Now I'm off to read about the hot dog bet, which sounds hilarious.


PS: Thanks to those of you that shipped money. I do appreciate it, since it obviously wasn't a condition of my help here. I have an idea of a toy I might get for my enjoyment and anything left over I'll get something for my wife for putting up with me doing this.

since this is BBV after all, pics of wife or GTFO

I'm the god here sir, this is MY thread, you gtfo.

Jalex, one hell of a job. I was definitely in the innocent because we can never prove anything camp, but you sir, are a legend.

Clearly these guys are scum, thieves, frauds, etc...

The funny thing is the worst thing that they did punishment wise was admitting anything. If Gary and Ro had shut up, Stars would have suspicions, and maybe they could have done something to Ro if they could prove it was him that logged into another account, but for Gary, losing his quest for SNE etc... are based on his confession. Always deny, I guess.

Isn't Gary's

WP sir, great work

Wat toy anyways?

Been wanting one for a while to replace something old...didn't hit my poker goal for last year, so didn't let myself have one yet.

ok if you're just talking about the people who were like "ship OP the money he won" then agree 100% but regardless of the fact that in this instance he was guilty it's still important to use proper logic and not jump to conclusions in all bets of this type. At the time of these posts there were people jumping to conclusions that turned out to be false, making statements that were false, and using logic that was downright awful. Even though he was guilty this time, they did not know this 100% at the time so there is nothing wrong with making sure the accused is given a fair representation of facts. I believe that was done and obviously the truth came out. That's how it's supposed to work.


LOL and yeah even though I didn't have anything at stake awesome job jalex thanks for taking the time to find the truth here. If I were a bettor I'd be super thankful. I might start sending you 2 cents in the future too to run good instead of DN .

One more question though that I thought about what is the general rule on aim logs? Personally I think that posting any aim without asking the other person first would be super scummy and the equivalent of recording a phone call and releasing it without telling the other person about it. That said if I were innocent and in Ro's position I say "stay on tv make sure I don't **** with the logs, you have my permission but I need Gary's" then I contact Gary somehow to get his permission to release the logs. Am I way off base here expecting that any conversation I have with someone is between me and them unless we both consent? Obviously if someone admits to a crime or something they lose the right to confidentiality (sorta like doctor-patient confidentiality but if you tell them you're gonna kill someone they're obligated to report that) but in general I just think it's super scummy to be sharing aim convos without the consent of all parties involved. Is it just me?

My friend has the .40 cal version of this gun, I love it.

The answer is obviously that it depends.

For example, I posted the conversation I had with BlackIze without his immediate permission. In this case, the conversation was nothing personal, I obviously didn't post anything damaging to him, and it was very relevant to the current discussion in the thread.

Certainly, when you get into disclosing private information, personal information, or implicating someone it gets way more iffy. That's why I tried to create an environment where there was NO REASON to not disclose UNLESS it implicated them.

When he refused to show me chat logs, that sealed guilt for me, in light of all the evidence gathered. At that point, I hadn't reviewed the transaction logs in detail or cross referenced them to play.

Yeah, I want something that I can put a bunch of shots on target w/o tons of recoil. I have a gun fanatic buddy that LOVES the M&P, my cop buddy loves his Glock, so I'm going to go handle both before I buy.

Plus, I figure my wife could handle it better, altho I've encouraged her to go for the shotgun first.

I haven't decided on regular vs compact, I don't have any desire to get my C&C.

ez solution. you ship 2x the escrow amount as the person doing the prop, if you lose straight up you lose 1x, if you get caught cheating you lose 2x

how is shipping 2x escrow any different from my suggestion of gary (before he admitted) shipping an extra couple k escrow as goodwill that he did not cheat?

it got shot down and i got called a dummy but it seems to be the same thing which everyone is agreeing on now

It seems almost a certainty that Gary is going to end up with his account closed and funds confiscated on Stars. They typically redistribute funds to those cheated and in this case that seems to clearly be the bettors. But it's kind of a strange situation on Stars part as it would be almost an endorsement of the bet on their end which is something they probably do not want.

I doubt stars will reimburse "the bettors", after all they did not lose any money. Instead I believe stars will reimburse players Gary played against that day.