Not really concerned with your little temper tantrums. I was speculating generally about Skype communications and how if affects soft play. I was not accusing you specifically. Feel free to attempt to tear my argument down. I realize that 90%+ of you communicate because you enjoy the game and never cheat, so I am not sure why so many people are defensive? But I could also google many examples of people using Skype and poker to cheat innocent people. Stay mad, I could care less. Anyone know where Duncan went?

Considering these factors:
1) We both play hypers as our primary game multi-tabling
2) We are both members of the same skype omaha 8 chat group
3) We both have often have Skype open while playing our sessions (and while not playing for that matter)

That would you not think that
4) We have chatted at some point while playing is pretty bloody likely?

Except this is where your argument falls flat. This is because you have made a number of assumptions about the content of any communication.

You assume that a) we are talking about poker b) we are talking about the same table c) that we are talking about colluding.

To illustrate this point further.

Phil Galfond, Ben Sulsky and Hac Dang are all good friends clearly. They run RunItOnce.com. They are all proven as exceptional poker players in their own right.

They will have each others email addresses, phone numbers and skype handles. They probably have all these at hand when playing a session against themselves and others.

By having all forms of communication with each other available, they be a) using them b) using them to collude.

Well we born with brains and a mouth so it's going to happen at some point. I mean Stars gave everyone a chat box and the nonsense I get called can only be proof that people like to communicate.

But heh communication can take many different forms, insults, compliments, conversations about woman, god, politics, racism etc. If I spoke to you about living in Mexico in the chat box would that be collusion because by your deductive assumptions it must be?

Feel free to do that. My Stars handle is luckyfool149. I would say I am a relatively modest winner who has only started to take poker a little more seriously in the last year.

Unfortunately, no proof has actually been forthcoming on Malloy despite repeated requests to yourself and playahata.

The human brain likes to simplify the world and seeks explanations to further their understanding. That's where evidence comes in. And this lack of evidence is at fault for people's reaction to you ITT.

You cannot keep bandying around accusations with no proof. It's just not acceptable or reasonable in this community.

I have never really considered how you would do it until your insightful post above. It makes a lot of logical sense.

Does your discussion on the subject mean you are more knowledgeable about it and that you must be cheating?

No. Not at all. It just means I could easily leap from a) to e) on the causal chain and accuse you of cheating because of your intimate knowledge of the subject.

Unfortunately, we cannot ask Malloy because he has disappeared. Therefore, we are asking you and hata, because you have made these specific allegations to tell us. We are appealing to your higher knowledge, because there are very bright people on here who have played far more games than you against him who didn't notice

Here are some statistics we do have available though.



No-one has played more than 5% of Malloy's total games with him. Every one of them except 2 I have played against in recent weeks and all as far as I can see have active accounts.

P.S A handful of the people on this list are in the skype group (MASSIVE COLLUSION ALERT).

This and this. +1.

Dude. I genuinely can't believe that you wrote this. You have made allegations (see above and almost all responses on this page) to the effect of "where is the evidence?"

We must all be smacked off our tits on coke to want actual evidence. We are crazy to be in the majority on this one. Crazy.

who intersting in group,my Skype is a Premove10
copypast

Speculate. That's exactly the right phrase. Tittle tattle with no substance whatsoever. I hear Hello magazine is good at that sort of thing.

How else would one interpret your original post about bokkie and I and your ensuing posts? Open to solid suggestions.

This is the problem with communication. You are always "speculating" what people really mean.

No problem. See above.

So now people who communicate don't actually cheat. Wow. Smartest thing you have uttered in this entire thread.

Why are people pissed at people insinuating they cheat? Can't think why. Completely unnatural reaction. Totally crazy.

EVIDENCE ON MALLOY WOULD BE APPRECIATED BY ALL. THANKS.

Peso,

While it is certainly in the community's interest to stamp out collusion, soft play, cheating, etc., at each and every turn, even merely implying that people are cheating because they talk in real life is pretty far out there. You're going to need a lot more than that to make the allegation; otherwise you do a whole lot more harm than good (a) to the people who are the subject of your implication and (b) to the community at large.

As others have said, if you suspect people of cheating, report it to the site and let them investigate it. After the investigation, if we find out that there were cheaters, let's identify them and dance on their graves. If the investigation proves unsatisfactory, lay your proof bare here and we'll judge.

But don't accuse or imply that specific posters here are cheating merely because they want to skype.

hey there
as far as i remember so far there was one case of money payed back to hyper players. was between christmas 2012 and new year 2012 i think.

Don't remember making this call, but it looks like a clear mistake so I was probably running out of time to make decisions on a couple of tables or misclicked thinking I was heads up with 817 chips behind. Mind you, I've seen you make several calls today that are massively spewy too, calling off about 15-20 BBs 5 handed with hands like 2466...that sort of thing. What that has to do with a conversation about collusion though I have no idea. Do you think I make a spewy call off against you (misclick or mistake I cant remember) to benefit the other guy when we're 3 handed? How would that work then? lol

Perhaps you're just annoyed because you're running slightly bad for the first time this year? Either way, maybe next Christmas you can ask santa to bring you a dictionary so you can look up what 'collusion' means before trying to use the word in a sentence. That way you won't seriously insult someone by questioning their integrity, when you actually meant to mildy insult them by calling them a spew monkey

PokerStars Hand #109880345187: Tournament #846762199, $3.32+$0.18 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2014/01/10 1:06:59 WET [2014/01/09 20:06:59 ET]
Table '846762199 1' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: M@$TERofPKR (500 in chips)
Seat 2: leledoni (500 in chips)
Seat 3: tamperen (500 in chips)
Seat 4: The Viper 00 (500 in chips)
Seat 5: luckyfool149 (500 in chips)
Seat 6: magician80 (500 in chips)
M@$TERofPKR: posts the ante 2
leledoni: posts the ante 2
tamperen: posts the ante 2
The Viper 00: posts the ante 2
luckyfool149: posts the ante 2
magician80: posts the ante 2
leledoni: posts small blind 10
tamperen: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Viper 00 [Jh 5s 2c Js]
The Viper 00: folds
luckyfool149: raises 478 to 498 and is all-in
magician80: calls 498 and is all-in
M@$TERofPKR: calls 498 and is all-in
leledoni: folds
tamperen: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 4c Kc]
*** TURN *** [9d 4c Kc] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [9d 4c Kc Th] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
luckyfool149: shows [6s Qs 8c Qc] (HI: a pair of Queens)
magician80: shows [5h 3c 6d Ks] (HI: a pair of Kings)
M@$TERofPKR: shows [7d 6h 4h 2d] (HI: a straight, Six to Ten)
M@$TERofPKR collected 1536 from pot
No low hand qualified
luckyfool149 finished the tournament in 5th place
magician80 finished the tournament in 5th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1536 | Rake 0
Board [9d 4c Kc Th 8s]
Seat 1: M@$TERofPKR (button) showed [7d 6h 4h 2d] and won (1536) with HI: a straight, Six to Ten
Seat 2: leledoni (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: tamperen (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: The Viper 00 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: luckyfool149 showed [6s Qs 8c Qc] and lost with HI: a pair of Queens
Seat 6: magician80 showed [5h 3c 6d Ks] and lost with HI: a pair of Kings

As you kindly took the time to post one of my mistakes M@$ter....lets take take a moment to review this little gem from you a short while ago. The very first hand of a Hyper. Two all ins in front of you, and you call off your 25 BBs with (2,4,6,7). I'm sure if you do manage to sort out that strat share Skype group you'll have a goldmine of insights to offer the other players on how calls like this are clearly +EV.

i wanted to post a big reaction but i saved it on this late hour. Lets keep it like this, i was a bit tilty this afternoon when i posted youre hand.

This call is far less worse than yours and at least in my hand, the best hand won my friend

Lulz. I remember this hand. You missed how bad the initial shove was (but you probably didn't really!!)! It was half one in the morning and I needed bed!This is a Wadzon type shove when we all first started playing hypers.

^^The best hand won . GL@ the tables man.

BTW. We shouldn't be communicating about poker #mustbecolluding

guess who's back... you better cheat now to profit

Na. As long as I can still locate the call button it should be ok.

Hmm well looked up odds calculator and it says with Ah,3h,8c,8s against Jh,Js,Kd,Qd You scoop the pot 37.1% of the time. I scoop it 32.73% of the time. Of course we shouldn't look at my hand as a good or bad call based on one particular hand you happened to have...just the same as whether the best hand won or not is completely irrelevant to whether it was a bad call.
Your almost always going to have some sort of low options, dominating that side of the pot whenever low cards hit the board, but you're crushed on the high side of the pot, but those figures are more flattering to my hand than they should be because I'm lucky to have an overpair to your 88. Judging by the frequency you shove in these spots I think A388 is slightly better than the median point of your range. But still, I don't like my call much there at all, given the situation and think I must have mistook a 3 handed table for a HU one and misclicked.

Lol Streity, I must admit I did think it was a little on the wide side, and I didn't mean to highlight it, so I apologise for not blocking out the names. Although we shouldn't feel too bad about making the odd mistake, because players are making thousands of rushed decicions every day and im sure even the best players at these games will at some point have shoved a hand then thought afterwards maybe it was slightly too marginal.

I'd say the average strength of hand a person shoves from early position in the first level might be (A,3,J,10) or somewhere in that ballpark, considering the standard of players etc. If someone else beside them then shoves, their range should be even tighter. There's probably people here who have better knowledge of software for running numbers and percentages, so feel free to look this one up, but im pretty sure calling off there with 2467 is a fair bit worse than my call.

In terms of advice for you M@$ter, I'd say when you're tilted, deal with the issue without picking out an individual and highlighting one of their mistakes, whilst implying that they're colluding with someone. Because that's a very bad insult to someone who takes their poker seriously.
So although you didn't apologise for that, I appreciate the fact you've said you were just tilting, so lets move on. Hopefully you have better luck today than you did at the tables yesterday.

yeah np, my mistake.

the hand i put in against a few top ranges but because there fishy there range will be more widely and most of the time that doesnt mean they gonna shove a lot of 4 cards low hands with 25 bb. We need 32,8% but taken the fact that our future ev with a 1500 chips stack is bigger 30% seems more than enough to me. Im a little bit experimental with this spot but i called it like 4 times now (similair spots) and until now i had every time more than 35% equity which is high variance but still pretty nice. I put some results of my stoving below, im still not sure if its a good call but maybe with better arguments than i have now you can persuade me

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	33.67%	113,916	216,634	3,999	120,097	2,820
A A * *	38.87%	153,343	232,171	11,419	82,655	17,553
A K * *	27.46%	100,808	137,709	11,572	85,875	17,750

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	38.06%	130,997	197,042	3,993	202,996	6,567
A A * *	40.15%	147,905	247,180	2,897	110,539	4,045
K K * *	21.79%	97,496	150,895	2,922	11,407	4,611

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	33.46%	100,020	220,122	1,763	119,436	7,920
A K Q 2	38.11%	122,550	177,948	14,080	149,537	28,312
As Js * *	28.43%	102,371	186,087	15,843	38,549	24,763

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	30.38%	83,097	189,067	5,580	114,132	23,151
A 2 * *	35.75%	100,147	160,947	5,510	190,154	23,784
K K * *	33.87%	155,296	242,667	3,587	6,110	3,995

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	30.56%	94,201	242,235	897	42,647	5,550
A K Q 2	40.62%	160,239	231,022	13,610	0	170,951
A 2 3 *	28.82%	66,963	112,236	14,507	88,144	173,458

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	30.33%	89,140	210,644	5,671	77,909	16,177
A K * *	35.80%	149,686	231,103	20,213	26,076	25,254
A 2 * *	33.87%	98,499	134,279	22,110	168,801	38,340

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	36.47%	122,356	176,896	10,074	190,983	24,857
* * * *	31.71%	121,919	203,116	10,818	53,781	15,647
* * * *	31.82%	122,279	204,270	10,757	53,771	15,686

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

658,008 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
7d 6h 4h 2d	37.16%	153,544	202,131	5,530	211,372	2,592
6s Qs 8c Qc	37.32%	172,907	315,550	5,530	0	0
5h 3c 6d Ks	25.52%	95,043	134,797	3,154	137,555	2,592

Wooow your examples are invalid.. You should try to avoid being dominated situations and 2476ds isn't that type of hand to play with in early phase. Only double suited cards are improving your ev but it's still too weak:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
2d4h6h7d	31.18%	101,281	209,981	5,984	83,759	11,708
AA, A$Z$B$B, A$Z$Z$B, KK$Z$Z, QQ$Z$Z, A$Z$Z$Z	34.39%	125,354	182,396	21,954	89,217	33,638
AA, A$Z$B$B, QQ$Z$Z, KK$Z$Z, A$Z$Z$Z, A$Z$Z$B	34.44%	125,477	182,708	22,032	88,935	33,829

Ok let's give to one guy doublesuited cards:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
2d4h6h7d	28.90%	91,257	190,480	5,577	83,254	11,824
AA$ds, A$Z$B$B$ds, A$Z$Z$B$ds, KK$Z$Z$ds, QQ$Z$Z$ds, A$Z$Z$Z$ds	37.83%	143,190	210,994	20,817	90,107	33,989
AA, A$Z$B$B, QQ$Z$Z, KK$Z$Z, A$Z$Z$Z, A$Z$Z$B	33.27%	120,478	175,057	20,689	87,963	33,714

More often you will split then scoop, so forget about these 1500 chips and answer to a simply question:

Is it worth risking 500 chips for additional 250 which doesn't change much to your situation?

tx for the good comment intresting way of putting things in propokertools, maybe i should invest more time to that! and its prob not worth to call :P

where is all the trash and hate in this thread ? pls bring it back.. i mean, I AM BACK... wanna be #1 in 2014 sharkscope leaderboards... opinions pls.. and pls hate.. I just want some discussions going on... why shud I give opinions about hands ? i want you guys to stay stupid as this is way more +EV for me.... gl to everyone doh

Good to see some in depth simulations for different situations, that simulator looks better than the one I was using. To make a verbal point which highlights some of what Ziemni0ks statistics are saying, those initial calculations you made seemed to exclude some scenarios which damage your EV, such as when an opponent has one or both your suit dominated. (This is going to happen quite often against 2 opponents when you have small suiteds). Also other situations which damage your EV such as an opponent having AK24 or A277, which is dominating, and nullifying the strength of multiple cards within your hand.
As a separate point, if you think you have a reasonable skill edge over the average player at your table, do you really need to chase a very tiny +1% spot in exchange for risking your whole stack? (hypothetically speaking though, as I don't agree this call is profitable). If you are correct about having an edge as a player, it stands to reason that you can turn down a very thin +EV spot and find a more substantial one later. This isn't the case when the blinds are high later on, but when you have 25BBs to work with early on, and as you say, the standard of play isn't all that high - you have time to pick out a spot with a bigger edge.
In my opinion if the call you're taking on has a % edge that's much smaller than the perceived skill edge you think you have over the field, and an advancing blind structure isn't forcing you into taking it - that isn't an optimal call.

People are bad at doing simulations and it gives the wrong conclusions.

This.

biood, you are crap at poker and should give it up... is that good enough?

.^sc

here we go .. whats your SN on stars ?

+1


Id like to add that it's really strange you guys talk about collusion in 3,5$ SNGs and post single hand-histories. Stop that please.

so much value in colluding at 3,5 $ hypers ;D

nono shewd.....hes the bestest....top 3 of all time apparently. sc him.