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NEW Poker After Dark - "Top Guns" - Weeks of Sept. 7 - 14 Who Wins The Most $? (Spoilers ITT) NEW Poker After Dark - "Top Guns" - Weeks of Sept. 7 - 14 Who Wins The Most $? (Spoilers ITT)
View Poll Results: Who Will Win The Most $ (two weeks)?
Tom Dwan
146 37.73%
Patrik Antonius
59 15.25%
Howard Lederer
56 14.47%
Eli Elezra
11 2.84%
Ilari "Ziigmund" Sahamies
17 4.39%
Phil Ivey
98 25.32%

09-18-2009 , 06:46 AM
Zigmund would most likely be out of the hole if he would do some value betting. Its good to see him finally getting some cards though.
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09-18-2009 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnyCrash
Zigmund would most likely be out of the hole if he would do some value betting. Its good to see him finally getting some cards though.
I haven't been paying as much attention to props but isn't he down like 250 still on just the props?
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09-18-2009 , 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whysoawful
I haven't been paying as much attention to props but isn't he down like 250 still on just the props?
Im not sure about props, but in the game he is still down over 100k. I would also like to know whos winning the props and for how much.
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09-18-2009 , 07:07 AM
What if Sahamies has KQ/98? Is it still the worst play then? They both know Ivey is never full here, so which hands can actually call the overshove? I actually loved the play. Obviously, from a results oriented point of view a 100k-ish bet would've been better and they might have been just a little too deep for the overshove (200k-ish range would've been better), but I really don't mind the play as it basically polarizes Ziigmunds raise to missed draws and boats.
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09-18-2009 , 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonKaleone
What if Sahamies has KQ/98? Is it still the worst play then? They both know Ivey is never full here, so which hands can actually call the overshove? I actually loved the play. Obviously, from a results oriented point of view a 100k-ish bet would've been better and they might have been just a little too deep for the overshove (200k-ish range would've been better), but I really don't mind the play as it basically polarizes Ziigmunds raise to missed draws and boats.
Also he's loose as hell, he's just made dwan lay down trips, I think being on TV makes this a easier laydown than if it was an online game. Online I think ivey would have called it.
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09-18-2009 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whysoawful
Also he's loose as hell, he's just made dwan lay down a boat, I think being on TV makes this a easier laydown than if it was an online game. Online I think ivey would have called it.
fyp
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09-18-2009 , 07:51 AM
best ep so far

i think ziig played the 98 boat hand vs durrr perfectly, but the shove was probably a mistake. i think if he just pots the river ivey probably calls
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09-18-2009 , 07:56 AM
i lol'ed when durrrr said nice hand ilari 2 times and both times Ziigmund just stared at him and didnt say anything.
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09-18-2009 , 08:14 AM
Sahamies had the most perfect check-raise river spot against Ivey, Ivey was betting that river like 90% of the time as the hand played, and most likely had a flush.

In any case, Sahamies admitted later he has no idea how to play NLHE. It shows.
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09-18-2009 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore
In any case, Sahamies admitted later he has no idea how to play NLHE. It shows.
He played the 98 vs Tom's 25 pretty well. I don't think ziig is bad, he's just been running really bad until the last episode and he's now just getting paid off on hitting. It's not his main game, but he's not awful if he even runs semi-normally.
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09-18-2009 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore
Sahamies had the most perfect check-raise river spot against Ivey, Ivey was betting that river like 90% of the time as the hand played, and most likely had a flush.

In any case, Sahamies admitted later he has no idea how to play NLHE. It shows.
really? i think his most likely holding is a strong top pair thats going to check back a bunch. the only flushes i see ivey having are like 89cc,KQcc type hands.
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09-18-2009 , 08:36 AM
I haven't watched the latest episode but these two weeks have been a huge disappointment to me.
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09-18-2009 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim
really? i think his most likely holding is a strong top pair thats going to check back a bunch. the only flushes i see ivey having are like 89cc,KQcc type hands.
i agree. i think checking the river there is pretty bad
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09-18-2009 , 08:49 AM
best ep so far. finally ziig got involved in action
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09-18-2009 , 08:55 AM
I'm dying to see the ziig impression of ivey.. "when I GO OUT, I GO OUT" lol with dumbest look on his face.

Looks like ivey was starting to laugh till he said it was a impression of him
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09-18-2009 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inn_Nstruct
best ep so far. finally ziig got involved in action
He's always been involved just he missed every flop in previous episodes and had to bluff. Flopping sets and turning trips has a habit of making profitable hands. The good thing about it is it's given him a bit of confidence to make some crazy plays like the 98 vs 25 hand
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09-18-2009 , 08:56 AM
I think I speak for everyone ITT when I say: STFU VEIL.
Also, Ivey is king.
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09-18-2009 , 10:08 AM
Yea Veil should STFU

Funny episode, nice to see Ziigmund finally hitting some cards.
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09-18-2009 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore
Sahamies had the most perfect check-raise river spot against Ivey, Ivey was betting that river like 90% of the time as the hand played, and most likely had a flush.

In any case, Sahamies admitted later he has no idea how to play NLHE. It shows.
Omg how do u do it? Everything u say is pure idiocy. Everything.
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09-18-2009 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrySanders
Dwan is coming off as super annoying in this last episode. I can almost hear Ivey going 'STFU'
The hand on the table looks ridiculous and the head bobbing when he is in a hand just tilts the hell outta me
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09-18-2009 , 11:01 AM
decent episode, cards helped the action pick up
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09-18-2009 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdaddy
The hand on the table looks ridiculous and the head bobbing when he is in a hand just tilts the hell outta me
agreed.

there's just no way around it :s

he really is a huge nerd
NEW Poker After Dark - "Top Guns" - Weeks of Sept. 7 - 14 Who Wins The Most $? (Spoilers ITT) Quote
09-18-2009 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim
really? i think his most likely holding is a strong top pair thats going to check back a bunch. the only flushes i see ivey having are like 89cc,KQcc type hands.
its very unlikely for Ivey to have top pair considering card removal effects of Ilari having JJ.

a river check raise or a river lead of 90k would have done the trick I think.
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09-18-2009 , 11:09 AM
ivey rarely has top pair hands, it would have been the case jack; ivey has a lot of tens, flush draws, under pairs, straight draws and some random hands.
zig shouldve just bet sth around pot and he would get called
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09-18-2009 , 11:23 AM
a river checkraise is really not that bad there. Ivey is betting Tx, betting a flush, might even bet a J with big kicker thought not likely, also possibly betting KQ and 98 as a bluff. Hes probably not calling a checkraise with anything but still you get a river bet out of like almost his whole range.

A potsized river bet would have been also good considering the way they've been playing IE betting a polarized amount on the river with a depolarized range or in other words making thin valuebets with an amount that looks like its either the nuts or a bluff so that if they are raised, they can fold. With ziigmund's stack size on the river (290k) and pot around 100k, a bet of 90k to 100k could have also induced a thin raise from Ivey considering Ziigmund can be valuebetting Tx maybe even J with a big kicker.

The problem with the push is that it really polarizes Ziig's range and unless if Ivey thinks ziig is bluffing there, Ivey can only call with like the nut flush.
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