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NEW Poker After Dark - "Top Guns" - Weeks of Sept. 7 - 14 Who Wins The Most $? (Spoilers ITT) NEW Poker After Dark - "Top Guns" - Weeks of Sept. 7 - 14 Who Wins The Most $? (Spoilers ITT)
View Poll Results: Who Will Win The Most $ (two weeks)?
Tom Dwan
146 37.73%
Patrik Antonius
59 15.25%
Howard Lederer
56 14.47%
Eli Elezra
11 2.84%
Ilari "Ziigmund" Sahamies
17 4.39%
Phil Ivey
98 25.32%

09-16-2009 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raise4fun
Durrrr just pwned Ivey . Durrrr 4betting Ivey preflop just set him up to get paid off later by Ivey . Durrrr>Ivey so far imo.
I agree I'm very impressed by him so far.

His other laydown was also nice
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09-16-2009 , 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil
keep in mind that both are very small sample sizes (especially ivey's).
yeah but just watch pokerlistings.com and see how many times he wins the sessions.

Besides OMGclayAikien (galfond) and benyamine, he simply takes people apart in nlhe
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09-16-2009 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil
keep in mind that both are very small sample sizes (especially ivey's).
If you want to talk about small sample sizes then i guess you cant draw any conclusions about any of the players on PAD or HSP because there sample size is so tiny compared to Iveys online sample size.
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09-16-2009 , 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrplr68
IMO Dwan's play is typical of what I see internet players doing time after time. Playing a lot of hands, and often getting money into the pot "bad," only to have the cards help (bail) them out. Then take credit for good play. A not so bad example of this was last night's K7 vs. AJ between Dwan and Ivey. Dwan called a raise with a marginal hand, was dominated, and got lucky on the flop (not to mention a miracle card on the turn). Any dumb ass can play that hand and win. Comparatively, Ivey's preflop play in the 8/7 vs. 10/8 was brilliant. No flop or board to bail him out. It was brass balls poker. The only way Dwan can beat Ivey is by getting luck in the short term, he can't out play him in the long run. With that said, I want to make it clean Dwan is a good poker player, but he's no Phil Ivey.

How well did Dwan do at the WSOP this year.........HMMMM.
You might want to look up the definition of dominated.
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09-16-2009 , 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whysoawful
yeah but just watch pokerlistings.com and see how many times he wins the sessions.

Besides OMGclayAikien (galfond) and benyamine, he simply takes people apart in nlhe
Umm you do realize that Phil Ivey was the biggest winner online in 2008 right??? more than galfond, durr and benyamine....oh and he is widely considered the best overall player in the world (cash games, HU, tournies, etc.), also ivey can go to any casino/underground poker club and sit in any form of poker game whether it be stud, razz, limit he, chinese and be a HUGE favorite...Durrr is a NLHE specialist and he believes to be a PLO specialist (he is dillusional), and yet his edge over ivey in nlhe is practically non existant despite being an "online nlhe specialist" yet ivey and him have played many times and ivey more than holds his own "in durrrs world". and last but not least durrrr won 38k from ivey when he had a full house...ivey won 38k from durrr when he had TEN HIGH! lol nuff said...
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09-16-2009 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadaces9999
If you want to talk about small sample sizes then i guess you cant draw any conclusions about any of the players on PAD or HSP because there sample size is so tiny compared to Iveys online sample size.
True but many hands can be fundamental to discuss.

I agree that Dwan's K7 vs Ivey AJ and Zig's 89 vs Ivey's T2 are two hands for example that are pretty pointless to discuss in depth coherently. Anyone doing so shows their ignorance a bit.
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09-16-2009 , 08:39 AM
And how do we feel about PA's constant chewing during the show?? it just looks strangely abnormal for sum reason...almost as if he puts waaaay too much food in his mouth at once!
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09-16-2009 , 09:21 AM
ziig is soooo horribad. i´m amazed at how he butchers every single street in every single hand. going broke with AKs may have been the only exception.

i bet he couldn´t beat 1/100 the stakes nlhe online.

odds on ziig just having fun with patricks money?
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09-16-2009 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by automat
odds on ziig just having fun with patricks money?
Who's Patrick and why would he borrow money to ziigmund? And why wouldn't Ziigmund rather use $3.55 millions he's won at FTP since HSDB started logging... and/or the money he's won before that or playing on euro sites?
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09-16-2009 , 10:21 AM
Best episode yet from a poker-perspective
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09-16-2009 , 10:23 AM
Phil did so much good stuff then he chucked it away on the AJ/K7 hand. Poor Ziig, playing bad, running bad - bad combination.
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09-16-2009 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinz
Who's Patrick and why would he borrow money to ziigmund? And why wouldn't Ziigmund rather use $3.55 millions he's won at FTP since HSDB started logging... and/or the money he's won before that or playing on euro sites?
there have been rumors that PA stakes Ziigmund, so thats probably why he asked that question.
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09-16-2009 , 10:39 AM
I like Eli check calling A9o on KJx board and then folding later in the hand, good lord he spews money OOP with no plan in a hand or any initiative.

Also potting it with AQo in the 3bet pot vs Ivey and PA, wow he is really bad.
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09-16-2009 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkrplr68
IMO Dwan's play is typical of what I see internet players doing time after time. Playing a lot of hands, and often getting money into the pot "bad," only to have the cards help (bail) them out. Then take credit for good play. A not so bad example of this was last night's K7 vs. AJ between Dwan and Ivey. Dwan called a raise with a marginal hand, was dominated, and got lucky on the flop (not to mention a miracle card on the turn). Any dumb ass can play that hand and win. Comparatively, Ivey's preflop play in the 8/7 vs. 10/8 was brilliant. No flop or board to bail him out. It was brass balls poker. The only way Dwan can beat Ivey is by getting luck in the short term, he can't out play him in the long run. With that said, I want to make it clean Dwan is a good poker player, but he's no Phil Ivey.

How well did Dwan do at the WSOP this year.........HMMMM.
EDIT: You sound like a grumpy nit who plays AA/KK faceup, has somebody stack you with "a dominated hand" because your range is so obvious, and then complain about "them damn interwebs players".
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09-16-2009 , 10:48 AM
best day so far.. finally some light 3 betting and looser play. should be fun the next days
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09-16-2009 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpjames
I like Eli check calling A9o on KJx board and then folding later in the hand, good lord he spews money OOP with no plan in a hand or any initiative.

Also potting it with AQo in the 3bet pot vs Ivey and PA, wow he is really bad.
yeah, i don't even think i like a bet at all w/ AQo given ivey's likely range (pocket pairs) and his ability to soul read. also i would guess PA is probably capable of checking there with a big pair, but not sure how often he'd actually do it

but the bet size is just atrocious. 35k or 40k accomplishes the exact same thing as 50k, actually might look more convincing, and saves him 15k. if you must bet, bet 35k and donate 15k to charity or something, damn!

also phil ivey is really really good
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09-16-2009 , 10:58 AM
best episode so far, the new line up should make for some sick action imo
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09-16-2009 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankoblanco
but the bet size is just atrocious. 35k or 40k accomplishes the exact same thing as 50k, actually might look more convincing, and saves him 15k.
It's quite weird how you keep getting fundamental things wrong. In a standard single raised heads up hand, generally, what you say is fine. However here Eli can get both opps off of all mediocre 1 pair hands or maybe even middle pair+ straight (or maybe even low flush draw)draw type hands a lot more easily with a 50k bet than a 35k bet. Or even a hand like 77 is folding more easily and of course 55, etc, etc. It obviously generally shows that Eli is much more serious about the pot. Ivey nor Pat is going to get away from, say any top pair everrr to a 35k position bet in that spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankoblanco
also phil ivey is really really good
you don't say... thanks for letting us know. We can sleep easy now knowing your astute powers of observation. I'm actually surprised you didn't correct his play with the AJ given your almighty Godlike powers. You would have played that hand perfectly too no doubt.

And I'm pretty sure the graphic was broken when Ivey had an any2 type hand against dwan when he 5bet. Must have been yet another one of those close to 0% moments. These whimsical events sure come up frequently...

Last edited by Veil; 09-16-2009 at 12:31 PM.
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09-16-2009 , 12:27 PM
I can't believe nobody ever told Ivey about that big zit on the side of his head. It was sticking out every time the camera focused on him...
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09-16-2009 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRUDEFINDER
I can't believe nobody ever told Ivey about that big zit on the side of his head. It was sticking out every time the camera focused on him...
I can't believe he didn't notice it himself when he looked in the mirror in the morning...
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09-16-2009 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil
True but many hands can be fundamental to discuss.

I agree that Dwan's K7 vs Ivey AJ and Zig's 89 vs Ivey's T2 are two hands for example that are pretty pointless to discuss in depth coherently. Anyone doing so shows their ignorance a bit.
I'm just saying that Durrrr aggressive style. allows him to be paid off in later hands.

I think Durrrr did make a good fold to zigmunds bet when he had a pair of aces and zigmund had two pair AT.

THeres many hands online that can be fundamental to discuss also so how you going to ignore Ivey being a loser online in NLH even if it is only over 20k hands sample size compared to 50 hands you have seen him play live?

Ivey is the best at all other games besides NLH but Durrrr is the best NLH player in the world.
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09-16-2009 , 01:20 PM
Dwan makes no sense sometimes..."we should play no limit plo"
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09-16-2009 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dynamite Kid
Dwan makes no sense sometimes..."we should play no limit plo"
He wants to gamble every now and then whats wrong with that. HE said he wants to play no limit PLO with props so there could be some sick gambling action.
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09-16-2009 , 01:29 PM
I don't care what anybody on here says, Durr and Ivey have some pretty amazing plays.

I like what that dude said about Ivey's X-factor, Ivey has the "Soul Read". Awesome!

Lederer pisses me off every time I watch him play. He's a tight ass. In case you didn't notice, when he r/r the flop yesterday with his J-8 draw even Illari knew he was in bad shape. And Sahamies is a donk!

If Lederer is in a pot with you and you don't have the nuts.... FOLD! Sick of his tight-ass style. Harmon as well.

Overall though, this has been my all time P.A.D. I think it is the greatest thing to have ever happened to me! THANK YOU LORD! lol
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09-16-2009 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShankSter
Lederer pisses me off every time I watch him play. He's a tight ass. In case you didn't notice, when he r/r the flop yesterday with his J-8 draw even Illari knew he was in bad shape.
you understand that Ziig was about a coinflip and if he saw Howard's hand he would instacall and you understand that Lederer reraises hoping for Ziig to fold right?

He also check raised 79 vs Ivey on A86 and followed through on turn getting Ivey to put money in on air.

Lederer played fine this last episode. While in past episodes he hasn't been terrific, he played fine this episode and in general has played much better on PAD than he has on HSP.
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