If I was playing in the insane props that zig and ivey were doing I think I'd start making it 10k over limps to make it look like I'm doing this with 2 black cards if I'm black and vice versa, but actually be doing it with 2 red cards if I'm black because I know someone like phil is more likely to call if he thinks I have two black cards, and he's holding two black cards and going for red.

Then on the flop I think it's best to just be super aggressive because as you saw for the most part people were always in there with marginal hands and that range can't really hold up most of the time. Obv phil is really likely to call down light as well since he's not stupid, but I think by using this strategy overall people would have a pretty good edge in the poker game itself with out hurting your chances in the props. One thing that's nice about a big raise pre-flop is that sure it looks like we could just have two of our color, but it could also be a huge hand looking to extract max value, and if you keep pumping chips into the pot that thought has to definitely cross phils mind with like T5 off on a ten high board.

phils a great player but I think by limp calling with like 1/4 of all hands he's basically playing preflop like a 10nl donk. Even with 2 red aces if phil is black in the props I think he's likely to just play the hand passively because he has a better chance at his props.

No, maybe you can whine about it some more.

True, it is certainly better to stack off in that spot.

Poor Ziggy, getting owned on HSP and PAD

If you dont see it like this youre probably blind.

I hate propbets when they are just "pure gambling", but in this PAD they influence the preflop action heavily, which is very interesting to watch.

Noobs just don't get it, thus they whine - and may as well stfu and leave

"Noobs just don't get it, thus they whine"

I'm pretty sure they get it.. they'd just rather not watch a game of poker that isn't influenced by prop bets.

Did you see Ivey's reaction when HL did that? It really threw him off, and if you remember, Ivey ended up folding. I think HL did it to be as unconventional as possible and put doubt in Phil's mind. Looks like it worked.

It's something new, it's different, it steamrolls over "average" dynamic. Just look how Dwan got all interested in it once he started to think of all the possibilities that emerge with it.

About noobs not getting it - just look at the thread about the propbet itself, most posters don't even understand it's not pure coinflipping.

god what is howards thought process in this game?

his bet sizing is horrible, he practically prices in ANY hand with some of his bets

someone direct him to this forum and tell him to read up please

every time someone qritiques the pros play they sound super results oriented and pretty terribad at poker. my theory is now that: 90% of ppl critiquing are super terribad at poker and/or combination of that and douchebag.

That was as much as a defensive bet as I have seen. Turn came a third club. Would like to have seen Ivey pounce on that bet, but yes I did see the WTF look on Ivey's face.

I'm undecided on all these prop bets, it kinda bugs me because i'm not seeing top cash game players play the game the way they normally would.

Actually, this is how they normally play probably. Except online I guess.

Does anyone know the math on the red/black prop bet if ivey holds 2 black cards and has black what is his % to win vs him holding 2 red cards and having black in the bet?

way too small to matter.. but it still an edge

I missed the last 2 nights PAD, my TIVO did not record Wednesday and last night it did but there was some lame ass carson daly bull**** on, what the hell, did they change the time or something or is my local NBC screwing with me

Hate to disappoint you, but the prop bets are the most realistic thing about what you are watching. If it was a game in Bobby's Room, there is no way in hell that they would be playing straight NLHE, so you might want to stop whining.

The NFL game messed up the times.

Pretty much all 2+2ers would love to see them playing their regular mix rather than straight NLHE, but that would be a ratings disaster.

Not sure if I am figuring correct or not. If Ivey has 2 red card and has black for the bet then has a 54.166% of winning and if he has 2 black cards then he has a 45.833% chance of winning. Can anyone confirm or deny.

What you're seeing is the true face of high stakes gambling degeneracy, of which poker is just one part. These obviously aren't chess masters or intellectual heros to be idolized, I hope that's clear by now to all the 2+2 geeks watching (especially Ivey, what a f*cking degenerate this guy is, wow!). With all the prop betting this show really damages the case for poker being a skill game that should be legalized, and the sooner it's off the air the better for the game's image (if you care about such things). In general I think they should stick to televising tournaments, and leave high stakes cash games in the private smoke-filled rooms full of prop-betting degens where they belong.

Ivey cannot stay interested unless he is gambling, he is a total degen. Dwan however is good for the game of poker, he plays the math, he tries to read hands, and he mixes up his play. This actually may be good for poker because Ivey could care less about the poker and just wants to flip cards for 100k a pop.

NBC has them up on their site pretty fast, I actually got done watching last night's episode online before it even aired on the west coast.

has it occurred to you that Ivey may think he actually has an edge in the red/black, if he believes he can screw the preflop game enough?