I'm a 2-5 player....not on either side......but I don't see why the Borgata can't have both options...especially on the weekends...say Thurs-Sun. Once there are (4 or 5) 2/5 tables going with the current buy-in ....why can't they offer both options after that? On a given Saturday night you'll likely have a nice mix....maybe 8 tables with the 100-500...and 4 tables with 200-1000.

Please read what I wrote more carefully before responding. I did not say make the $2-$5 a $1K buy in. I said raise the minumum to $200 and the Max to $700. There is a major difference between what I said and what you are claiming I said.

And what do you mean by "heard". (It's "herd" by the way). Players would still have the option to buy in for between $200 and $500. The only thing that would change is that buying for $100-$199 would no longer be an option and players that are interested in doing so would now be able to buy in for a couple hundred more.

The recreational player would not be hurt but it would afford the opportunity to those who are trying to grind out a living a better opportunity to do so. I still don't see the harm but see upside to this slight adjustment.

What foundation are you looking for exactly? I base my statements on 5+ years of playing full time at Borg and the people I talk to.

I know what I make. I speak with the winningest players in the room and I know (at least according to them) what they make. I know how difficult it is for the top-top full-timers in $2-$5 to get by on what they are earning in the game as currently structured. I know many who have dropped out and stopped playing just because of a few dollars an hour and there are many players on the fence deciding what to do. A good player can only make so much in this game as currently structured. As I stated earlier....it's my best estimate that there are no more than 10-15 regs (1500+ hours a year) making $25/hour in the $2-$5).

Yes...Borgata is a great room to play in and that's why I play there exclusively mid-week & part-time on weekends. But I see a lot of the regs playing in other rooms now. They are doing because they are trying other ways to up their hourly rate. Raising the min/max is a way to do that and keep them at Borg.

I'd bet that if it was done....these regs would come back full time. Just a hunch. I am one of them.

Isn't your point that the recreational player will get hurt?
If a game is easier for the pros to win a lot of money at, that money has to come from somewhere. If you are correct, it will come from the recreational players.

A poker room does not set its games to the specifications of people trying to make a living playing poker. In fact if they did, possibly only pros would want to play there, meaning they would not be able to make a living anyway.

Have you ever read Mason's old articles about why (uncapped) NL games died the first time? Basically the bad players busted too quickly and never came back to poker. I still think he was right and that NL games are not good for the health of poker in general. The bigger the cap, the worse it is for the game. The only reason NL games have stayed healthy this long is that the games are all over the TV and keep bringing in new players.

NIN - You have to understand that poker rooms have and always will attempt to cater to the masses. There isn't much benefit to catering to the hardcore players who will be there no matter what. The Borg will still have 13 2-5nl tables on weekend nights, with or without you and your grinder buddies.

100bb max is fine for the 2-5. Maybe you should table select better and constantly look to go to the game with the most deep stacks. Realize that the 100bb cap is going to allow you to shear the sheep many times over. Anything that protects the awful players from going broke more quickly and that allows them to bleed the money away more slowly without it hurting as bad will keep the game healthy.

Also, if these grinder friends of yours are leaving the Borg for other cardrooms at peak times, shouldn't that make you happy since there are less better-than-average players to compete against?

Instead of focusing on getting the buy-in raised for the 2/5 game, (which is clearly not going to happen) we should focus on having them take the BBJ drop at $50 and not $20, as that is something that IS broken and SHOULD be fixed.

Thoughts, Stan?

I agree with your TV point. It has helped market the game. We can all be thankful.

So you think that raising the min/max buy $100/$200 is going to make players go busto? That is your reasoning for not raising it? If time and rake, bad beat rake, tips, the casino floor has not done that already...I dont think its going to happen anytime soon.

Players buying for $100 should play $1-$2NL anyway. Eliminating that option is good because players buying for $100 should prob not be at the table anyway for their own sake and they only negatively influence the flow of the game.

Back to your original point. If the room's goal is to cater to the recreation player....then the casino should lower the expense of playing poker in the room to make more players winners or less losers so recreational players last longer. Cause truth is...that's where most of the there money is going. Not the so called "pros" pockets or people trying to make a living at it. It's not even close.

They are not my friends, thank you.
My game selection is fine, thank you.

I don't care what individual is playing where. I'm simply trying to find the best game possible and it would exist at borgata all the time with a slight increase in the min/max. I mentioned that many borgata regs have been trying other casinos too - as a way to up their hourly - to show that players are looking for another option.

If it's all about the bottom line to Borgata I think they'd come back if it was.

I've already given my reasons and I understand that there is dissent here and i've read the reasons for it.

Stan....you have taken polls in the poker room in the past. Would you take some random ones to see what the players say about making a small change to the buy ins?

No profit, No poker room.

Stan

sorry bro...had to point yours out too. See how easy it is to randomly mistype something? Keep to your point/counterpoints about the current state of 2-5.

dying to play horse oneday in the borgata ...any updates on razz or triple draw ...stan? would horse tourneys be possible?

I'll be there early Wednesday. I have work today and have a rec league hoops game tonight.

What kind of mix are we thinking?

3-6 HOSE? 8 handed table with 8 hand rotate?

4-8 HOSE with 1-2 PLO and 1-2 NLHE 6 game action?

I'm down with whatever. I'll be there by 11am (Wedns) but will prob skip the 11am tourney if we can get a good cash game going.

lol @ the old timers still with the "no limit will kill poker! you win too much too fast!" pretty much proven it's not the case at this point

Sometimes we forget the real reason the Borgata delivers the best in live poker...

kind of off topic, but if the regs want to increase their win rate, they should learn how to play before looking for softer games imo

The players who buy in for 20bb's at the Borg 2-5 are horrific at poker. They have absolutely no idea what an optimal 20bb NL strategy is. While it can be annoying at times, they are pretty much dead money. When/if they run their stack up, they are underdogs to leave with a majority of it.

+1 for upping the pot size for the BBJ drop. 4bb's at 2-5 is brutal.

*** BUFFET or DRINK CATTLE CALL!!! ***

pixelpusher and I are pushing the following...

For any 2+2er still here at The Borgata and has a buffet voucher, do you all want to get together tonight for dinner? If so, what time to any of you prefer? For me, I'm good after 5:30 PM.

If not earlier, and we still want to get together, we must do this no later than 8:40ish. The places closes at 9 PM and I'm sure the cashiers want to close the entrance sooner.

Meetup should be in front of the buffet and we should all go in as a group.

Please PM or quote-reply your response ASAP. Thanks!

LoL. Heard vs Herd. It's not even close. I put that in intentionally for you to see if you'd call me out on it. Guess I had the right read on you, bro. LoL

Agreed. A point was being made that raising the buy in a little would hurt the recreational players. I was saying that that if time, rake, tips, etc. has not already, it won't.

Stan...are you willing to take a poll of the live players to find out what their feeling are on raising the min/max a little?

Hey Stan,

What happened to the 2-way game. Does this still run regularly? Last i heard, its just Omaha on the weekends, did the players just give up on stud h/l

Don't do it Stan, I remind you of Strickland's folly with the pink chip game...

You also spelled internationally wrong, btw.

When the B raised 5-10 from 1500 max to 2000 max a bunch of people dropped to 2-5, which is why you get only like 2 tables of 5-10 and now 12 tables of 2-5.

If you make the max from 500 to 1000 (from 100bb to 200bb) it becomes a deep stack game, more tight, and actually less profitable.

darnit!! i just sat down. =\. these mashed potatoes are so good!!

From 4:30pm on, please ask for Christal or Sal for the Buffet passes.

Stan