No, I'm already there, so you're not coming back now? Thanks in advance.

This thread is a perfect example of mob mentality and the damage it can cause. I was halfheartedly following the thread but started following more closely when the accusations of chip dumping started flying. The evidence at the time was circumstantial and a sick spot to be sure for the judges. Battle lines were being drawn and trolls started converging.

This is when our hero Nostalgica entered the fray. The idea is finally floating around but I believe Roseeker had no involvement in the chip dumping and simply made bad decisions because (get this) he cares ALOT of what people on this forum think of him. When I first started using this forum I will say (so far I've seen Amaterasu and Iampro echo these sentiments) that he was one of the most committed poster in the Beginner's Forum. I have no doubt that he values his image on this forum (certainly in beginner's section) a great deal. His post always came of as a sage old timer trying to mentor newcomers and I believe he took great pride in that role.

In light of that, all of his actions actually make sense. He sees an associate in trouble and recognizes both parties involved (Gary and potential dumper) and recklessly jumps into the fray with a mother hen mentality to defend Gary. When JAlexander reveals the connection between them BVB takes on a mob mentality and starts bashing OP and Roseeker. This quickly escalates when it is discovered Roseeker multiaccounts.

I think JAlexander did a terrific job with his investigation but the language he used in his posts combined with the aura of intimidation and investigatory proficiency resulting from said posts prevented some from taking a more impartial look at the facts and encourage others to build up the mob mentality. Pretty much we knew that some posters trusted him and he owned a company. People sang his praise (JAlexander pwns, zomg JAlexander for MOD) and this combined with his negative view of Roseeker and Gary tainted the way people viewed the facts and encouraged idiots like Starazz to spam the **** outta this thread with overthetop attacks on Roseeker and Gary.

Roseeker sees this mob mentality forming but also realizes that he is partly to blame, as it is now revealed he is multi accounting, and this is frowned on. Probably even worse than the multiacounting is the reason he is doing it. As I stated above, I could tell from the commitment Roseeker showed to the Beginner Forum that he truly enjoyed helping the noobs out and it made him feel important. I remember when he started offering coaching he offered a couple free sessions and put alot of disclaimers out. Some guys I was talking to on the forums lol'ed at him and said his advice was terrible and he had no clue what he was talking about and he needed the beginning players to look up to him for some gratification at not being able to do well at poker. I know this sounds harsh but imo I'm convinced this is the mootive behind all the shady **** Roseeker has been accused of doing. Roseeker has admitted that he multiaccounted to hide his previous failures at poker, and it's obvious this is something he would not want people to find out. So when Jalex is hot on his heels and uncovering all the personal info, he shuts down and deletes all his personal info that can be traced back to him. IF he is found out to be a fraud he will lose a lot of respect and I think that's really improtant to him.

Meanwhile Jalex makes the 10k escrow offer whcih I think is absurd and proves nothing. Under different circumstances what he did could be considered stalking or menacing. I'm not saying that's what he did, but Roseeker doesn't know you and you and your bbv bandwagon are openly insulting him and gunning for him hard. You are in no way impartial at this point and even if I was innocent I would not give u even more personal information about me, especially after you went so far as to take screen shots of all my facebook pages and present that fact in this thread in a snide and mocking tone.

Roseeker is by now utterly humiliated and realizing that you hold this personal info sees his rep is in tatters. He cringes as he is following the progression of this thread and hates himself for being such an idiot and making a fool of himself. The mob is beating the **** outta him and it truly hurts him while reading it all. He is confident that no cheating went on from his end but at the same time he is complicit in hiding his results/multiaccounting/pretty much being a sham. So he decides to let Stars clear up the matter and hope it'll blow over. Obviously you guys had some correspondence or he was genuinely concerned you would release more information and decides to come clean with everything, which I believe he has. His reason for having two facebook accounts is totally feasible and makes total sense for someone who is so worried about what others think of him.

In conclusion, I think Roseeker was not involved at all in the chip dumping matter but let his ego and pride and mother hen syndrome get in the way of using proper judgement.

also,
-1

tl;dr

+1 mil

so i just randomly started browsing this thread, saw this post and the posts it links to... how could anyone think this dude won this bet? seems like blatantly obvious cheating/colluding/chipdumping. he forfeits, dudes who bet against him win, /thread?

well good for you then. you came a long way. make sure to list that in your resume as i'm sure potential employers will be very interested.

let me ask you this, would you bet your life that the accused is guilty? if not, then why speak of it as so? why not just sit and wait?

i dont see how the accused can get a fair shake in here. its not like the judges are excluded from reading the threads, correct?

there is a preponderance but absolutely no benefit of doubt.

if that seems fair, then carry on. like i said, kangaroo court.

Jalex has handled everything here just fine. He got tough on the suspects when they remained completely silent on a situation which costs other people money and is now softening up on them due to their recent cooperation. He has warned the cheating suspects in this thread to present their case firmly, fairly, and without damaging their right to privacy.

Now would you all leave Jalex in peace to continue doing what he is doing to make sure the truth of this propbet can be secured so we can lock this thing up? He's not perfect, but to tell him to stfu and accuse him of wrongfully placing guilt on people is nonsense.

You cannot point to a post where I said he was guilty or innocent. I just want the bettors to get a fair shake and not have morons like you repeat the dumb **** you love saying.

I'm sure there are many things you can't understand, but that doesn't make it our problem.

What are you saying here? If you admit there is a preponderance of evidence then we don't have anything left to discuss because that is all that is, and should be, required in this case.

save yourself the trouble

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/pr...?do=ignorelist

exactly the reasons for the justified investigation.

the problem is whether or not op was in on it. op could be the victim of a vested party or parties.

i mean really, my buddy is doing a prop bet. i bet my buddy's side. my buddy looks like he's going to lose. i call some other buddies and tell them to jump online and dump money to gary but dont make it look too obvious. my buddies are dumbass's and screw it up and make some suspicious moves. i never tell gary about this because i'm a good buddy and a piece of shady **** at the same time.

does this make gary guilty? thats been my point the whole time. dont want to argue with the evidence but what i described is totally not far fetched. there hasnt been an established fact that gary knew who those screenames were.

yes, the fact that op happened to 3bet one of these suspicious parties with a trash hand, that op has not shown a preponderance of doing, is definately curious if not damning.

but the thing is that there is also hand histories with said parties involved where the action was very normal. so, to be fair, one can say, "how do you explain that?"

thus, the jury is still out as they should be.

but nooo, gary is clearly guilty. now, does that seem fair? not to me and if it does to you, then carry on.

You are quite right, I can't help myself sometimes. Like his last post shows that he hasn't read 2/3 or more of this thread.

Firstly RoSeeker being a very shady person who seems to hardly be able to open his mouth without lying isn't actually the reason why we believe chip dumping occurred here. You seem to be implying that is the sole reason people think he and Gary are guilty of cheathing. The fact is there is a huge amount of evidence, multiple extremely unlikely coincidences, intertwined with the relationships beween the suspect parties. RoSeekers lying doesn't make anyone guilty, it just means whatever he says can't be trusted.




Oh and here's a post RoSeeker made on his facebook notes. This is the real RoSeeker -

Combined with all the other BS he has posted in this thread and his multiaccounting of just about everything it is possible to multiaccount I can't see how anyone could give any credit to ANYTHING that comes out of this guys mouth. It's like he has some pathological need to lie.

Oh btw, here is the latest RoSeeker lie I uncovered -

So firstly, RoSeeker says he hasn't had any contact with StoppedClock in over 3 weeks. Then he says he transferred money to him and that he played 200NL on 19th March with that money. It's just one fricking lie after another.

Isn't is just amazing that two guys you have transfer history with, who have next to zero history at 1/2 (and certainly no history of spewing at 1/2) both ended up at gary's tables on the 19th March and lost money to him with statistically anomalous, terribly played hands that enabled him to win the bet. Isn't it amazing that these two microstakes students (and friends of yours) with next to no 1/2 history BOTH suffered by far the biggest losses of their poker careers on the 19th March and both of them have Gary as the guy who has singlehandley taken more off them than any other opponent they've every played. How amazing that the three parties in this affair, out of the hundreds of thousands of pokerstars microstakes players, are closely connected with you.

I'm sure you would also have mentioned this prop bet challenge to stoppedclock when you were in contact with him regarding the money transfer unless you guys don't talk about poker, which obviously isn't the case when you are both poker players and you are transferring money to him for the purpose of playing poker.

This is more nonsense. If RoSeeker had a bet on gary's side the person that took the bet from him would have chimed in by now to tell us as that would add even more evidence, not that we don't have enough already.

oh wow, this is an eye opener, and why the hell would you put this onto your facebook page?

I mean a sociopath would never do that; almost seems like he wants attention?

the sick thing is he's lying on forums where he has time to write his response and review it...not like he's in person and has to think on the spot

I wanted to write something similar myself, but you did alot better job. Roseeker has been no more than i gentleman to me who has helped my game. He has his reasons for multi account or SNs but i dont see him involved at all.

and who's to say that roseeker would have made that bet himself or booked it through another party?

we can go round and round on this all day. if your side was so clear cut and dry, this case would be done by now, right?

its obvious your side is strong, but not strong enough to drag certain people through the mud just yet.

but whatever, some of you see it differently. carry on.

My best friend, who I hung out every other day for the previous 7 years, ripped me off for €700 3 years ago. This is a guy who you would think is as straight up and honest as you will get - For example he has never illegally download films/music because he finds it morally wrong. Yet he ripped his best friend off for €700. Go figure It certainly thought me a thing or two about how the world works and the effect money has on people. He is still actually my best friend as he is a decent guy (apart from ripping me off lol) but I have no trust in him now when it comes to money.

When it comes to money issues, the only people you can really trust are your family. There are so many naive people on twoplustwo, its no wonder that people here get scammed so often.

Just because RoSeeker has been nice to you and helped you means jack sh*t when it comes to his guilt here. It's also worth bearing in mind that the reason he was so helpful in the beginners forum is because he fancied himself as a coach and was trying to get students - and he also got an ego boost out of it, which I imagine was a big part of it for him. Nevermind that he was multi-accounting purely so he could deceive those same students into thinking he was better than he was so that they would have him as their coach.


You might want to wise up man as you are a prime candidate to get scammed in future if you are going around with an attitude like you have displayed in that post.

Wow.

Again wow. Good find/observation.

I have these transaction records. I'll post a summary later - I just got off Teamviewer with RoSeeker and need to review.

The post of RoSeeker's that NANONUTS quoted was posted after he sent me the copies of the transaction records, fwiw.

I realize that, the apparent contradiction doesn't look good though, unless the transaction was sent > 3 weeks before he said that or something comparable, which is a possibility.

alright. they're guilty. hang em.