I'm sorry it was a joke, I was debating on making a prop bet with the number of posts 24 hours after the final decision was written but thought that it might be in poor taste

How long is this gonna take? I gotta pee, should I go or Leatherass it?

Also: Pretty sad that I went 3 days without posting in this thread and I'm still 6th on the post count list AND i have no part in the bet. =/

this! update us on estimated time until post!

I don't think even jalex can properly even judge that

ahh can't wait any longerrr, whats taking so long

My gambling compulsion is being f*cked ragged by this wait. Over/under on how many words will be contained in Jalex's next post?

(I can confirm that I do not know Jalex in real life and if you don't believe me despite the cast-iron evidence of my saying so you are clearly scammers/douchebags/trolls and you can all GTFO. After paying me my winnings.)

lol in before epicness, TY jalex.

Okay here's 'short' cliffnotes (all times posted in my commentary are Eastern):



Obviously this thread involves a prop bet. The prop bettor, Gary_Neville is MilitiaRusha on PokerStars, and over the last 750,000 hands at 1/2nl he is a -0.62 bb/100 winner over those hands. He is down approximately $15-20k this year on PTR. However to be clear, he is pursuing supernova elite, so that doesnt' mean he would be a NET loser with bonuses (disclaimer: I rarely play pokerstars, so I don't undrestand SNE). The 5 days prior to theprop bet, he's down 32 buyins in ~50k hands. He has made posts on 2p2 admitting he is a losing player, but that SNE will make up for it.


*************************************************


Here's the terms of the prop bet. Initially Gary was NOT going to have a webcam and he had a RL friend serving as escrow. After complaining by the other side, he allowed another escrow and setup a justin.tv account.



*************************************************


At one point during the prop Gary is up 9 buyins (9:04 PM). However, he starts to lose it back and at 11:41 PM he is down $280 with 1.8k hands to go.

At 12:18 PM, this hand happens:


Gary wins by less than $20. In all, breeezzz lost ~$242 to Gary according to HEM.

*************************************************

Obviously the thread goes nuts. Here's background information on breeezzz:

1. He posts on 2p2 under breezh4x and seems obviously wanting to work on his game.
2. He is a micro stakes sng grinder, plays like $3 sng's.
3. He has like 30 hands of history at $1/2NL from June of 2009.
4. He has an interesting take on chipdumping:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54.../#post13479166

Another hand vs breeezzz is posted:


Gary has a 5.2% 3bet percentage over the 30k hands, so this is also supicious to the posters/bettors.


At this point, the consensus is to look for new judges, my name is suggested by terp, who is a bettor in the thread. (aside: screw you terp for
getting me involved) BlackIze PM's me asking for help, that's the first I've heard of this prop.

I offer to help, but indicate I'm unwilling to review all 30k hands, but I'll certainly look at suspicious stuff. Sunday night 3/20 we get on AIM and he provides me with cliff notes and my initial thought is that it's just random. Here's the link to that AIM conversation:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1444

So my intent Monday morning is to just do a little googling to make sure nothing seems fishy and then post my support of awarding Gary the bet.


*************************************************


So, I start to google breeezzz and I find a link to a 2p2 poster named Nostalgica. Information about Nostalgica:

1. He was a coach/video producer on two web sites, and he primarily coaches microstakes SNG's.
2. Nostalgica is a good friend of Gary's in RL.
3. Nostalgica coached breeezzz and was good friends with him too.
4. Nostalgica was VERY active in this thread defending Gary and providing reasoning for breeezzz's play in the T7o hand.
5. It is revealed in the thread that Nostalgica is ALSO posting in the thread under the name RoSeeker; Roseeker is also posting in support of Gary.

A moderator got involved and demanded that he disclose that he was both posters.

Here's the link to my original disclosure of the link between breeezzz and Nostalgica:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=818


*************************************************


So now this raises red flags, so I decide to take a look at the 86o hand. I filter down Gary's 3bet range over the 30k hands where he's in the blinds

vs cutoff/button. I see TWO hands show up (offsuit garbage) that seem unusual for a 5.2% 3bettor, the 68o vs breeezz and J8o vs a player named StoppedClock. Here's the link to the 3bet graphics: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=838

Information about StoppedClock:

1. NO history at $1/2NL on PTR.
2. Also plays microstakes SNG's.
3. StoppedClock shows more than DOUBLE the number of hands played against gary as anyone else on PTR.
4. StoppedClock lost $367 to Gary according to HEM.
5. A microstakes SNG player instantly sits at 4 tables of $1/2NL to start his first session.

So then I find a link where StoppedClock is ALSO a friend of Nostalgica/RoSeeker! Here's the link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=849



*************************************************

So my next step was to look at everyone that lost more than a buyin to Gary. I found ANOTHER player that had no cash game history on PTR (you can

google his name and find MSNL hands from 2007) who also sat with Gary that night and lost more than $800 to Gary. I was NOT able to find a link to
Gary/RoSeeker, but it still seems suspicious. Here's the link to my discussion of this third player:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=866


*************************************************


So then I review all the hands vs these two new villans (breeezzz only had the two hands, so nothing else to review really)...

vs StoppedClock: There were 17 hands where more than $5 was won/lost by our hero in a hand where StoppedClock was involved. Hero won all but two of

the hands that were heads up between them and those were very small pots:

1. Hero checks down ace high vs Stopped's 44, no post flop action.
2. Hero folds to Stopped's cbet after Stopped opens utg+1.

Here's the link to actual hand histories: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=893


*************************************************


vs rongrong: There were 28 hands where more than $5 was won/lost by our hero in a hand where Rongrong was involved. Rongrong was playing 75/35. Of the 21 that were heads up, hero won 17.

Here's the link to the actual hand histories: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=901


*************************************************


This was the extent of my initial posting. Other potentially questionable things:

1. The webcam was apparently setup so that you could not see Gary's laptop screen. At one point someone asked the camera to be turned, and Gary refused saying 'busy'. I personally did not SEE this, so this is from a poster in this thread.

2. Gary offered to redo the prop bet IF HE HAD TO, while maintaining complete innocence.

3. Breeezzz is reading this thread and HAS NOT posted in response to accusations he was involved in chip dumping.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1681

He did respond to a PM from Blackize with the following explanation:

4. Nostalgica / RoSeeker did NOT disclose the extent of his relationship withbreeezzz, he downplayed it.

5. Nostalgica did not post ANYTHING about his relationship with StoppedClock prior to my posting. This in itself might be fine, since that name was not brought up. After my post, he merely wrote her off as an acquaintence from school that they occasionally talked about poker.

6. Gary makes claims of losing pots to StoppedClock, but doesn't post them when asked.

7. Many people call out RoSeeker to provide transfer histories, he does not respond. Gary did post a screen shot of 7 days of Stars history the night after the prop bet without any hesitation.

8. In general (jalexand's opinion here) the involved parties are evasive, and do not cooperate with requests, instead choosing to wait and see how

Stars reacts to this reported activity.

9. Nostalgica's statements about 'watching' breeezzz's play is very suspicious:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1981


*************************************************


On 3/24, I post asking Nostalgica if he multiaccounts stars, he immediately denies it:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1588

Shortly after that I post conclusive proof he IS multiaccounting Stars. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1606

Obviously this doesn't have anything directly to do with the prop, but it does go to discrediting RoSeeker. RoSeeker disappears from the thread for a while.


*************************************************


I post a threat to disclose the personal information I gathered on the suspected parties if they are proven guilty, UNLESS they come forward.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1830


*************************************************


On 3/26, I get a PM from RoSeeker asserting his innocent again and about how he's scared to reveal stuff to me, I respond to him and publicly that I am willing to post $10,000 in escrow if they allow me to review their transaction histories and other potentially personal details.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2298

Gary, breeezzz, and StoppedClock (who I doubt reads 2p2) do not respond other than Gary does post that his Stars account is locked. But he doesn't

email them asking for it or offer to give up FTP transfer histories.

There are lots of PM's between RoSeeker and myself about this offer, againthat seem very shady to me. For example:

3/27 - NEW INFORMATION
*************************************************


On 3/28, RoSeeker admits to transfers with StoppedClock
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2415

He also forwards me emails from Stars and FTP for his transaction histories on the RoSeeker and Sol Reader accounts. He does this BEFORE I post the
escrow.


*************************************************


On 3/29, I post the escrow: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2512

Later that day, we get on teamviewer. He doesn't have his Stars RSA key, so he can't let me view the transaction histories, which was the entire purpose of the teamviewer. Instead, he intended to let me SEE him forwarding the Stars/FTP e-mails instead. I personally do not believe they are doctored, so I tell him not to bother. He does forward me the Nostalgica transaction history while we are on teamviewer.

After that part of the teamviewer, I ask him w/o any warning to show me his instant messenger log with Gary. He tanks forever and refuses. I posted
the chat of the teamviewer session here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2561

After the session, he PM'ed me saying he found is RSA key, and we agreed to setup another session on 3/30.


*************************************************


RoSeeker is also removed as a coach on one of his coaching sites for lying to the admins:

http://grinderschool.com/grinderscho...l-reader.shtml


*************************************************


While I'm asleep I get a PM from RoSeeker refusing to do the second teamviewer session. I posted it here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2661



Okay that should provide cliffnotes to everything that's been disclosed so far, new information coming now. Please let me know if you see any errors.

*********************

Here's the final information so this post can be referred to easily:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2792

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2796

***********************

RoSeeker confession: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2928

Gary confession: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2929

***********************

First

And let me say, amazing job with the whole investigation

You're a ****ing legend, dude. WP.

GigaFish

jesus christ dont quote the whole thing

i wonder if gary is reading this thread and pooping himself atm (if hes guilty)

nvm

i was expecting ****ing new information, not a rehash of everything.

it's coming be patient

Okay, Little Boy time:

So, I reviewed RoSeeker's transaction history, here's why I don't think they are doctored, lol.

They show the following transfers to StoppedClock:

On 3/19 at 12:35 AM, RoSeeker sent $800 to StoppedClock.
On 3/19 at 3:50 AM, RoSeeker sent $350 to StoppedClock.
On 3/19 at 9:06 PM, StoppedClock sent $200 to RoSeeker.
On 3/23 at 8:08 AM, StoppedClock sent $99.98 to RoSeeker.

So, let's examine this in detail:

***********************************************

First, here's RoSeeker's explanation in PM to me:

Quote:

My relationship with her began with her finding out that I played poker, and her saying that she did too. We started trading anecdotes, bad beats, etc. This was early in the school year (about October I presume) when I sat next to her in a lecture.

From what she's told me, she plays in home games and casinos, and my impression is that she's a "live donk". I told her that I played online quite a bit, bragged a little, and said I was a coach. We traded emails, and she said she wanted to try playing online, so I helped transfer about twenty bucks for her to mess around.

I sent her a weaktight link my my user name, but she didn't use it much, so she is not a student imo. I've sent her an article on husngs, push/fold, and bankroll management before, but that's the extent of strategy discussion.

I originally offered to coach her (thought there was something special about coaching a female poker player) but she didn't seem to play a lot and was losing according to sharkscope. Also, we didn't talk often at all, and when we did, she didn't talk poker much, so I didn't bother. We're not close so it would have been weird for me to keep talking about it.

Regarding transfers, I began by sending her 20 or 30 in 2009, and later she asked for 20-30 dollars more (I don't remember the exact date, it doesn't show in the history). She also sent me money to withdraw some time this year for about 10 dollars.

More recently she asked to make a deposit which was much bigger than before, perhaps she didn't think it was safe before, maybe she can't find home games to play in, I don't know. We discussed for a while how much she would give me in cash, and I transferred the money to her account on my laptop at a cafe, and she gave me the money. We have not met since (I've left the university over the easter break).

I have sent her an email maybe an hour ago, but haven't had a response yet.

So...he refers to her transaction history with him:

1. He sent her $33 on 1/21 at 6:01 PM.
2. He RECEIVED $13.76 from her on 3/12 at 8:09 AM.
3. He sent her $20 on 3/17 at 10:56 PM.

So, as I stated before, she's a loser at SNG's maybe she cashed out the rest of her money on 3/12? Pretty weird cash out for any other purpose. My PERSONAL suspicion is that she might have given this account to RoSeeker to use, but who knows.


So, now let's get to the interesting stuff:

He claims that he did a online cash for RL cash transaction right AT A CAFE, right?

1. They go to school in England. They really met at 5:35 am at a cafe to swap money on a saturday?
2. Why did he transfer MORE to her a few hours later when she still had plenty of money in her account?
3. Why did she send money back DAYS after depositing?
4. Does someone who starts off deposting $20 and not trusting the site suddenly deposit $800?

More interesting stuff:

1. The transfer happens at 12:35 am right?
2. StoppedClock sits down at 4 $200nl tables at 12:40 am. Seems like the first thing I'd do after making a big deposit is put 100% of my money in play.
3. Why the next transfer? Well, StoppedClock lost some money in that first session, and without it, 'whoever' was playing that account couldn't buy in full at 4+ tables.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

He was offered a chance to come forward before 9PM Eastern tonight.

Im convinced

Okay, fatman time:




You guys remember that Gary is RL friends with Barewire, the original suggested escrow right?

Well, this afternoon he PM'ed me that he needed to talk to me.

Here's what happened today:

Barewire was in a class at their university.

Gary is apparently in the same class, and looked for Barewire and came to sit down next to him.

Gary then proceeded to admit that he was guilty. At that point, I had him tell Gary that he had an opportunity to come clean as I stated before and I wouldn't do anything else against him. Gary had until 9 PM EST tonight to come forward. He has not contacted me so far.

GG, cheaters confirmed.

is that all the info? so gary loses? does stars close his account too?

I'm tripping over my jaw.

DOUBLE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

One more thing:

I want to make it very clear that Barewire was helpful from the VERY moment that there was suspected foul play.

He originally found the link between Nostalgica and breeezzz when googling and shared it with BlackIze. I did find that later myself independently, but he obviously disclosed it immediately.

Also, he immediately came to me with what is obviously the end game.