I don't see where Q wrote that.

If he irritates you, then please put him on ignore and stop responding to him.

To put someone on ignore,
first go to My 2+2,
then go to Edit Options,
then go to Settings & Options,
finally go to Edit Ignore List and do the obvious.

Buzz

In fairness, if we really wanted the ban to stick, I think we could make it stick.

This is a privately owned forum. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. But as a moderator, I do try to give people latitude to say what they want to say, especially in this particular thread... within the limits imposed by 2+2 upper management.

No. It isn't. But we are allowing as much leeway as possible in this particular thread.

Any member can put any poster (except mods) on ignore. If you don't want to read what Q (or anyone else) has to say, then put him on ignore.

To put someone on ignore,
first go to My 2+2,
then go to Edit Options,
then go to Settings & Options,
finally go to Edit Ignore List and do the obvious.

Best course of action, if you don't want to feed the flames, is to simply not respond.

Buzz

Noted.

I hope not. But if you'd stop reading his posts, responding to him and complaining about him, the forum would be a better place.
To put someone on ignore,
first go to My 2+2,
then go to Edit Options,
then go to Settings & Options,
finally go to Edit Ignore List and do the obvious.

Buzz

Money graph is close to ev, looks like very natural graphs for a winning player. In fact biood is running a bit bad all in all.

We have to remember that half run above ev and half below, if the graphs are calculated correctly, and games aren't selected for demonstrating some point.

It's not that I'm saying A8 is a low hand you like to have, but that it's better than no low at all, tilting the percentages a bit favorably on avergage.


This is an extreme example for a top 20% hand: (AK)(KQ)

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

9,774,072 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
As 8d 9d 9s	47.71%	3,233,511	3,233,511	0	4,291,776	0
Ax Kx Ky Qy	52.29%	3,680,482	6,540,561	0	0	0

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

9,774,072 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
As Td 9d 9s	33.62%	3,278,679	3,278,679	15,558	0	0
Ax Kx Ky Qy	66.38%	6,479,835	6,479,835	15,558	0	0

And the counterfeit effect when villain has two lows:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
As 8d 9d 9s	43.80%	169,120	315,756	0	61,944	18,475
A 2 K Q	56.20%	247,207	284,244	0	222,142	18,475

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
As Td 9d 9s	41.60%	170,926	326,653	1,609	0	0
A 2 K Q	58.40%	271,738	271,738	1,609	264,483	0

When villain has three lows the A8 is naturally insignificant.

2nd in.

This confuses me. If he is banned under one pseudonym why isn't he banned under another one? Some would say, there is no point in banning, if it is so easily circumvented. Why do we need moderators then if their decisions are so seemingly easy to override?

The original offence + direct personal attacks on Juicy, Bokkie, Billy and now Biood- how does this not warrant an actual review of his appalling behaviour towards other members?

I am trying to work my way through this one.

Abuse is allowed in this thread, because of the title of this thread? I completely disagree. I see no reason why this thread should be moderated any differently to any other on the 08 forum. This forum is not BBV.

If I could be bothered, I could trawl through the other threads to find significant evidence of abuse. It is clearly not confined to this thread. Therefore, following that logic, if evidence can be proven outside of this thread, there is grounds for a ban?

On the point of freedom of speech, what we are saying is that it is the moderators decision of how far this actually extends. I again disagree with this. I seriously don't think I would be talking out of turn to say the vast majority of the forum has had enough of this member and that the latitude has been extended way too far.

Without the community there is no forum. Without the community there is no need for rules. Without rules there is no need for moderators to enforce them

I can't name any forum of social interaction these days in the Western world that doesn't have rules and norms, and people to enforce them, but if the enforcers can't take heed of the communities opinion then it clearly fails.

Democratically there are elections to elect our decision makes and enforcers. But as you say this is a private forum with private rules so accountability is seemingly not required.

I don't want to ignore. I want to ban.

This is the bit I disagree with the most. I am not sure looking back on it, you would phrase it that way again, but I can't second guess.

Laissez-faire is not the way to go sometimes. Ask Nevile Chamberlain or even Barack Obama with Russia. If neither the offender nor the moderator know where that line in the sand will be drawn, and the line is continually extended, why is there any incentive for the offender to stop pushing the boundary. That is exactly what he is doing.

If we were to take your analogy of feeding the flames. A fire requires heat, oxygen and fuel. If we say that the fuel of the fire is Quantum, that the oxygen for his views are supplied by the existence of the forum itself, and the heat is supplied by those that respond then you have a potent fire. Now knowing that the people slighted will always generated heat, that we cannot remove the oxygen, what is the most logical way of getting rid of this fire? Remove the fuel.

In the end this is a forum. By not responding to things there is no point in a forum. Not defending yourself like biood has done is just plain stupid.

i kinda changed my mind on quantum. its good to have that 1 IMO stupid guy in the thread to keep entertainfactor. and its a trash thread so imo he should be allowed to say anything while its kinda hard to guess if its all just a level of quantum.

I did a search. This is one of the few threads on the forum where he's been posting lately. I can rail too.

who cares what he or anyone posts in this thread. Its when the content threads get tarded up it reduces the value of the forum.

I have a fan club

Trying to build a case based on tenuous evidence is flawed - a bit like your collective shove-tard plays.

While streity has written a most eloquent and, at times, compelling prose of reason and precedent for ostracising me from "the community", he probably doesn't know precisely why I was banned in the first place.

I was banned on the day I signed up over some banter with juicy and wadzon, when I insulted both in several foreign languages. It was assumed I didn't play OH8 and had no interest in posting about the game. Obv that wasn't true but if you really want to get me banned, I would lobby niss. Btw I posted in another forum about being banned etc and the mod there replied. No issues. I would prefer one of my old names back tho - I was stuck with this one after exhausting my repertoire of foreign swear words and 1st Amendment rights.

I haven't been abusing anyone lately - I was semi-joking with biood and was honestly trying to show him perhaps a different way, but whatever, all hail juicy! As for the rest, any abuse rendered was fully justified

Oh and a faster way to ignore me would be:

1. view my public profile
2. click on user lists
3. select ignore

But none of you really WANT to ignore me or you would have done so by now. All 3 of the guys calling for my head here just have their panties in a twist because I think they're fish idiots (billy, winningstek, streity) - but even Billy after being ORDERED to ignore me, still won't.

Noted.

The mod who banned him chose not to ban him again. Banning someone who is out of order is always an option for a mod. And so is making it stick.

To help posters? (I hope I help posters... that's why I mod).

Banning someone and making a ban stick are always options for mods. I read all the posts in this forum. I think niss does too.

I don't think the title of the thread has anything to do with it. There was a request that (paraphrasing) we have a thread with a minimum of moderation, and we honored that request. This thread is the result.

The reason is a thread of this nature (that would be moderated more loosely) was requested by a poster, we honored the request, and this thread turns out to be one of our more popular threads (judging by the amount of reading and action it gets).

I agree this forum is not BBV. I don't enjoy reading BBV.

The fact that Q was previously banned is sufficient grounds for a ban. We could also ban other posters who get involved in squabbles. Whether to ban or not is always a judgement call.

I don't think and I'm not saying it is the moderator's decision as to how far freedom of speech extends. I believe that's a matter for our courts to decide. I'm not an attorney. I have only an educated citizen's understanding of the law. My understanding is courts have ruled that freedom of speech does not extend to areas such as privately owned internet forums. (As an aside, freedom of speech does not extend to various other places as well). That's my understanding... as previously noted, I'm not an attorney.

I appreciate your opinion. Indeed there's serious disagreement in courts about freedom of speech issues.

Perhaps you are right about my extending the latitude too far. It's a judgement call.

I don't think this forum has many "rules." I don't consider my main role as a mod of this forum to be "rule enforcer." (However, that does go with the territory).

I am considering your opinion. (I'm responding to your opinion and therefore I must be considering it). However, I'm not bowing to your opinion... nor am I bowing to mob opinion.

Moderators are given a lot of latitude to moderate their forum as seems best to them.

And that is what I am doing.

However, it's incorrect for you to think moderators are not accountable. We are.

If you think any moderator, including me, is behaving improperly or imprudently, you have the option of writing directly to Mason Malmuth or Mat Sklansky. You also have the option of starting a thread in the About The Forums forum. Probably your best course of action is to write a private message to the moderator you think is remiss. (That's not necessary in this case, since you've already publicly written the message to which I'm publicly responding).

I fully understand what you want.

What I'm saying is if you don't provoke Q, I think he'll leave you alone... if you don't respond to him, you'll steal his thunder.

Agreed.

I don't think that's "exactly what he is doing."

Clever analogy. You have a way with words. (That's a compliment).

It's OK for biood to defend himself, especially in this particular thread. I did not penalize or criticize biood for defending himself (To the best of my recollection, I have not penalized or criticized biood for anything).

Buzz

He doesn't discriminate which thread he tards up with his constant bitching about how he runs so bad and targeting various regs that may have won a flip v him. Atm it just happens to be this thread as there is a lack of decent content threads anyway. And it's booids turn.

I should feel sorry for him as he's clearly mentally ill but after the constant threatening pm's and stalking for 3 months that's kind of difficult. He's got better lately I guess much the same as he isn't posting his crap all over the forum atm. No doubt that will change when he goes on one of his 'terrible' downswings though.

I admit I made a mistake rising to all his stupid crap and going to war with him a while back but it started coz I was sick of the idiot slagging off good reg posters and players.

One thing I know for sure. Very few serious players that may add value to the forum will be attracted to post here when all they see is all this bull****.

As steity said. He does a good job at fuelling it all. Who the hell wants to post any hand discussions when 95% this clowns gonna come in and tard it all up with his bitchin and stupidity and if if any1 dares to disagree with him prepare to be hounded.

Today I play 851 sng for 9 hours.
Tomorrow i try beat record biood1.
My challenge - 1100 sng but if i can't win.I'm not upset
GL guys
my graph after spoiler

Oh the pain, STOP, noo, the voices, NO, I can't do that, I won't, **** off, you can't make me, NO, I'll get caught, I can't, why do you want me to do this? NOOO, leave me alone, don't make me, how can I do this? It's not right, **** off, NOOOOO.

OK I'll do anything just stfu, stfu, STFU!!!!

Stfu Cartman, you contribute the lion's share and have been dragging this on all by yourself for quite some time now. Why not drop it like asked? Why call me obsessive and threatening when you troll all my posts and issue me with death threats and overtures of physical violence? Run along kid before I call your momma.

This is good, I like this. Basically shows you can run like **** but still just about break even. Imagine the sea of $s you would have if you ran as badly as biood.....

lol you're truly pathetic and a pathological liar. Knew you were from the 1st time you talked so much **** about playing me HU then ran and just lie after lie and constant bitching about how bad you run and all the regs that are clearly way better than you run sooo far above ev.

It's boring and most posters are bored with all your pathetic crap. You have actually stalked me at the tables for 3 months waiting for a bust that you can pop up and start going nuts. You need to get a life boy and stop being a forum virus.


Go get help. Then come back and play me HU.

I'm sick of you both at this point. Neither one of you is willing to cooperate with me. I think you both enjoy the squabble. And that's OK with me so long as I'm left out of it... but now streityboy has drawn me into it... Not where I want to be.

We helped you out, Billy. You were temp. banned but we got you unbanned so that you could handle your dealings in the marketplace. And you're repaying our kindness by ****ting on us. (By continuing to harp about Q after being asked to back off, you're ****ting on us, Billy).

By refusing to cooperate with me, both you and Q are showing me personally no respect. And by continuing your inane squabble, you're not showing any respect to forum members either. Either one of you could STFU yourself instead of each telling the other to STFU.

You should be intelligent enough to realize, Billy, that Q wants your head. He's willing to get banned himself if he brings you down in the process. And that may be the end result of this.

It's up to niss. I wash my hands of both of you. I don't have time for this ****.

Buzz

realy nice, gratz... how much tables do you play ? I think biggest reason you play more games/hour then me is that you do longer sessions.

@quantum: he could have also ran like 400 above EV, its the same probability. I mean, I realy guess you know this yourself, even for you this troll/level is kinda obvious. if not

Broken my last computer mouse... Hate all! ;(
Not today(

Now you've got Buzz upset too. Cool down boyz!

Did I just win a tournament? Must be missing something

Sorry man. I did ignore several of his posts after he specifically went out of his way to comment on my posts. Is it not true that billy follows me everywhere singing from the same hymn-sheet?

Nah, he kinda amuses me these days with his desperation at the tables and willingness to enter coalitions just to get rid of me. I take that as a compliment and evidence that I won the war (as well as the HU battle). I'm really not interested in billy beyond his table hypocrisy. I said he was a supernova fish YEARS ago and he still hasn't forgiven me, or learnt how not to be a fish. See, Billy has it in his head that he's amazing at the tables and the Shakespeare of the OH8 forum. It really distorts his delusional sense of self-worth when someone questions such assertions.

Like I said in my previous post, niss is a huge fan of mine LOL, so I'm optimistic.

Anyway, even if I seem irreverent about most things, I do feel bad that you feel I betrayed your confidence, especially after you gave us latitude when you didn't have to. I sincerely apologise for this.

You know what I find to be funnier than anything about Quantums ramblings about Biood and others. Quantum plays hypers looser than biood does for the most part. 6 handed Quantum probably plays looser than any of the regs do. The biggest difference between biood and quantum is biood doesnt do silly things like limp fold with any of his range. I guess there is a small % Quantum is just on an epic troll here on 2+2. However I think its more likely he doesnt even understand his own game that well. I looked over quantums hyper numbers in my database earlier and honestly there is no way he is good at them. If anything he plays 2 loose early on and too tight later on just like every other fish in online sngs.

I dont really care if he he gets banned or not. Either he amuses me with his post or he pisses me off which only makes me want to play more and get better so its probably +ev for me to have him on here.

Guy, you are verbal. Studied at Oxford?

Great even the guy running bad for a couple of days scoops me in every pot, i have no hope.

Juicy, I'm happy you say that. Why not post any of the 30-40 times we were all-in, in direct opposition, in HTs over 2 days recently?

Reason I call you with a MUCH wider range is because I see you all-in so often FTA with any 4 cards. I caught you maybe 5+ times shoving FTA with 4 8 9 K rainbow, in the space of half an hour, then you left. That's one stupid thing I don't do. And sure, the odd time I limp but I limp aces and rags alike. I have lost count of the number of times I limped with top 1% hands from the SB and you open-shoved from the BB. You don't adjust vs anyone. Predictable, monotonous, shove-fest. IF the field knew what I knew, ha.

This cracks me up. If you can get anyone other than the 3 amigos to agree that I am a looser player early on (or at any stage) of SnGs than you are, well, I will be impressed.

If I cared to count your average shove count before the button with > 40 BBs, it would be the highest at the table, without doubt. You only have one move in all of poker - shove/fold pre. You do realise that in the thousands of HTs we have played, I've never seen you raise? I see bokkie raise. Wadzon raises sometimes, everyone raises, but not juicy. I'm being serious. Tens of thousands of hands vs me and no raises. WTF?

Obviously saying either of us are bad (in relation to the field) at sngs would be inaccurate. Hundreds of facets make up the perfect poker game, from raw aggression and hero-traps to solid reads and deadly folds (+ LUCK). I know there are many more facets to my game than there are yours.

Friction is good, it's a natural by-product of competition. I would say contributing here has made me a fractionally better player by forcing me to analyse and re-analyse things I was doing in certain situations vs players of all classes. Even if there were no improvements to be made in certain areas, the absolute fresh confidence of certainty in your plays is a minor improvement in itself. It also helped me a lot knowing how you guys justify your plays and why you choose to rationalise away blatant errors without countenancing evolution. Plus obviously it's been therapeutic expressing my disdain for most of you and obviously getting to know billy has been a special highlight

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...351_185DADC481