06-24-2014 , 04:46 PM
So as numbers say.. Generally Biood will scoop less than 3 of 10 times, will be scooped almost 4 of times and the rest are splits and quarters. The probability of being called is high. You don't even need to calculate to see this push is a little bit -\$ev and -Cev. Small mistake but still mistake. I even don't understand why is there a big echo in the hand.. Everyone does make mistakes and in Biood case recently he plays massive amount of hypers so we should be thankful for action and money he gives us.
06-24-2014 , 05:42 PM
So I sat with biood in a cpl of micro-HTs to assess what had been learnt since yesterday. Biood has evidently learnt a lot, such as how to win > 50% of all hands dealt. Winning the pot in 11/18 hands in this game was quite impressive:

Let's explore how this was possible in just 8 easy steps, shall we?

Step 1 - shove utg with mediocre hands:

Poker Stars, \$6.71 Buy-in (10/20 blinds, 2 ante) No Limit Omaha H/L Tournament, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #28304221

Hero (CO): 498 (24.9 bb)
Brunolf (BTN): 488 (24.4 bb)
mastahdonk (SB): 520 (26 bb)
evelien2704 (BB): 498 (24.9 bb)
biood1 (UTG): 498 (24.9 bb)
J.J.J.J win (MP): 498 (24.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8 3 A 2
biood1 raises to 496 and is all-in, J.J.J.J win folds, Hero calls 496 and is all-in, 2 folds, evelien2704 calls 476 and is all-in

Flop: (1,510) J 5 7 (3 players, 3 are all-in)
Turn: (1,510) K (3 players, 3 are all-in)
River: (1,510) 5 (3 players, 3 are all-in)

Spoiler:
Results: 1,510 pot
Final Board: J 5 7 K 5
Hero showed 8 3 A 2 and lost (-498 net)
evelien2704 showed T 4 A T and lost (-498 net)
biood1 showed 5 K T A and won 1,510 (1,012 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Step 2 - make full house and avoid low

Step 3 - shove any suited A from any position, low hand optional:

Poker Stars, \$3.32 Buy-in (15/30 blinds, 3 ante) No Limit Omaha H/L Tournament, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #28304241

yossy99 (BB): 544 (18.1 bb)
J.J.J.J win (MP): 1,004 (33.5 bb)
biood1 (CO): 484 (16.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): 494 (16.5 bb)
mastahdonk (SB): 474 (15.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A 3 2 9
J.J.J.J win folds, biood1 raises to 481 and is all-in, Hero raises to 491 and is all-in, 2 folds

Flop: (1,022) 5 8 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (1,022) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (1,022) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Spoiler:
Results: 1,022 pot
Final Board: 5 8 7 7 J
biood1 showed A T K 7 and won 511 (27 net)
Hero showed A 3 2 9 and won 511 (27 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Step 4 - make at least trips: flush and FH optional depending on board

Step 5 - continue to exploit the best position to shove from with mediocre hands - i.e. utg

Step 6 - remember you're not allowed to miss. Good hands might be optional, scoops are not

Step 7 - remember to keep your range wide when solid players shove utg

Step 8 - most importantly of all, remember to scoop.

Sorry this was so long but when I have so much to learn and am in such a good mood, I felt this was the right time for us all to learn from a true maestro
06-24-2014 , 05:50 PM
Hehe.

More fun of a ripping than last time.

Gogo!
06-24-2014 , 06:20 PM
lol. every hand absolute standart from my perspective. EVERY, i mean every GOOD reg will support that for sure. wtf... your calls are actually realy bad tho in the first 2 hands. the Call in CO with A 2 3 9 ist just soooo bad and you realy go ahead, post this and want to tell everybody i am bod lol ^^ realy funny bro, you need to learn lotta stuff.

edit: what are the notes you got on everyone at this table ?

Last edited by biood1; 06-24-2014 at 06:29 PM.
06-24-2014 , 06:24 PM
I dont agree with that but then im a terrible reg so you might be right.
06-24-2014 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemni0k
So as numbers say.. Generally Biood will scoop less than 3 of 10 times, will be scooped almost 4 of times and the rest are splits and quarters. The probability of being called is high. You don't even need to calculate to see this push is a little bit -\$ev and -Cev. Small mistake but still mistake. I even don't understand why is there a big echo in the hand.. Everyone does make mistakes and in Biood case recently he plays massive amount of hypers so we should be thankful for action and money he gives us.
that shove is for sure not -chipEV.. i think I should stop teaching you.
06-24-2014 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipya4dinna
I dont agree with that but then im a terrible reg so you might be right.
pls tell me which hand is not standart of them ^^ this is realy getting ridiculous.
06-24-2014 , 06:56 PM
06-24-2014 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biood1
lol. every hand absolute standart from my perspective. EVERY, i mean every GOOD reg will support that for sure. wtf... your calls are actually realy bad tho in the first 2 hands. the Call in CO with A 2 3 9 ist just soooo bad and you realy go ahead, post this and want to tell everybody i am bod lol ^^ realy funny bro, you need to learn lotta stuff.

edit: what are the notes you got on everyone at this table ?
guess i'll just reply to this post as I don't wanna get much involved as I don't but this is pretty entertaining.

All I can see is standard hands from both of you lol.

My 1st point is how on earth can you say quantums calls in the 1st 2 are bad when he knows you shove pretty light in general like many other HT regs. He's never folding those hands ha. You wouldn't.

So saying quantums calls are really bad seems pretty bizzare. Actually the most surprising thing about all this is that you are saying his calls are terrible. All the crap he is saying is standard him.

2nd point is I agree that your hands in his lol slide show hands(he luvs this ****) are pretty w/e standard and wtf for posting all of them.

The shove with A579 totally standard and as usual quantum is being totally results orientated as usual just coz he lost(waaa he runs sooo bad)

The AQ57 is possibly marginal against a tight player shoving UTG but ffs imagine posting it as a horrid mistake. lol hypers ffs AQ and 2 lows call/fold w/e move onto next one.

From this and previous posts he clearly desont understand the importance of putting villains on ranges with the info available. Let alone the simple maths of some call or fold situations.

After my bust in weekly 215 a Cpl of days ago he pops up at my table going wetting himself that he tilted my chips away. MP big stack reg with like 80 bb opens and I have 17 bb in the bb with aq23 ace suited so pretty standard shove as I did. He had aa45 and obv I bust w/e.

So I point out that it was totally ****ing standard so gtfo stalker and he's like. hahaha but he had aa45 you idiot. Then proudly states that his bust was aq23 versus aj3x.

He's gone through all this few times like I am actually meant to read what a villains cards are rather than put him on a range. He refuses to get it so I wouldn't get too wound up like I did a while back.

Last edited by billygstar; 06-24-2014 at 10:02 PM.
06-25-2014 , 02:25 AM
Poker Stars \$1.40+\$0.10 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds + t10 - 4 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t619 M = 3.26
BTN: t538 M = 2.83
SB: t1048 M = 5.52
Hero (BB): t795 M = 4.18

Pre Flop: (t190) Hero is BB with K 8 8 2
CO raises to t609 all in, BTN calls t528 all in, 1 fold, Hero calls t509

Flop: (t1836) T 2 6 (3 players - 2 are all in)
Turn: (t1836) 9 (3 players - 2 are all in)
River: (t1836) A (3 players - 2 are all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: t1836
CO shows 5d Ah 2s 5c (HI: two pair, Aces and Deuces)
BTN shows Ac 7d Qs 4h (HI: a pair of Aces; LO: 7,6,4,2,A)
Hero shows Kh 8c 8h 2h (HI: a pair of Eights)
CO wins t162
CO wins t837
BTN wins t837

 ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL] 658,008 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
Kh 8c 8h 2h34.31% 159,056287,51604,574984
5d Ah 2s 5c31.93% 113,453143,8881,170230,3194,812
Ac 7d Qs 4h33.77% 155,928225,4341,17078,0613,828

Did an even better call than I thought
06-25-2014 , 06:44 AM
@billyg: maybe the second one is close, the first one is realy bad tho, just run it against 25 % (I dont think im even pushing 25% there). quantum must be mentally ill.
06-25-2014 , 07:24 AM
What is difference between 25% and 50% hand range? Only less suited cards

Easy calls from Quantum against your donky range. As long as there will be someone who calls your pushes your play is -\$ev.
06-25-2014 , 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemni0k
What is difference between 25% and 50% hand range? Only less suited cards

Easy calls from Quantum against your donky range. As long as there will be someone who calls your pushes your play is -\$ev.
im so sad you didnt want short term propbet against me.
06-25-2014 , 10:25 AM
The only mistake I seen in Quantums post was his call in hand 1 and its a fairly big one imo. Actually I think its a bigger mistake than Bioods shove of 4465 or whatever it was. Hand 2 is a borderline call but probably ok against Biood.

I understand some of the hate Biood is getting because he did come off a bit cocky in some his earlier post but hes not a fish and probably better than most of the guys piling on him. Anyone who plays 16 tables of hypers is making mistakes. Thats the trade off you make if you want a high hourly.
06-25-2014 , 10:42 AM
yea I can understand some of the hate aswell. I'm using that as motivation tho. I see Poker as a sport and I want to compete with people. For 6m hypers this is basically the thread where I can do posts to most players I compete with. would be awesome if the other guys I play a lot with, like Hunmatt, Johnniewalk, Premove, Highfl, JJJJ win etc would post a litle more as its entertaining and motivation. I did like a hundred bad shoves and he picks 4 hands where its all fine xD (thats why this thread is so entertaining to me).
06-25-2014 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnaturalDisaster
The only mistake I seen in Quantums post was his call in hand 1 and its a fairly big one imo. Actually I think its a bigger mistake than Bioods shove of 4465 or whatever it was. Hand 2 is a borderline call but probably ok against Biood.

I understand some of the hate Biood is getting because he did come off a bit cocky in some his earlier post but hes not a fish and probably better than most of the guys piling on him. Anyone who plays 16 tables of hypers is making mistakes. Thats the trade off you make if you want a high hourly.
Totally disagree that calling hand 1 versus booid's shoving ranges is a bigger mistake than shoving UTG with 4456 at 10/20.

The fact that he shoves with so many marginal hands makes hand 1 a call albeit close and hand 2 is an easy call. I really don't think having seen you play quite a bit you are folding these hands in practice against a loose aggro like booid. You'd get there every time anyway i'd imagine.

You're right though and I said that in a previous post that he's playing a ton of volume he's going to make mistakes of course. Guess it's just about limiting those mistakes so it's just too funny that loony toons is posting these standard hands. But no surprise obv.
06-25-2014 , 10:55 AM
im def not shoving more than 25% from UTG for 25 BB so hand 1 is in fact like juicy said a huge mistake to call... its like 46% against 25%.
06-25-2014 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billygstar
Totally disagree that calling hand 1 versus booid's shoving ranges is a bigger mistake than shoving UTG with 4456 at 10/20.

The fact that he shoves with so many marginal hands makes hand 1 a call albeit close and hand 2 is an easy call. I really don't think having seen you play quite a bit you are folding these hands in practice against a loose aggro like booid. You'd get there every time anyway i'd imagine.

You're right though and I said that in a previous post that he's playing a ton of volume he's going to make mistakes of course. Guess it's just about limiting those mistakes so it's just too funny that loony toons is posting these standard hands. But no surprise obv.
I understand where you are coming from here given that biood does play a crazy style and definitely shoves plenty of random trash. The problem with hand 1 is that we are 6 handed blinds are 10/20 and he is shoving from utg. I took a look at my database and in my history with biood is utg shove range here is around 20% so Quantum is like 45% against his range not to mention the negative ICM ramifications of needlessly calling it off there.
06-25-2014 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnaturalDisaster
I understand where you are coming from here given that biood does play a crazy style and definitely shoves plenty of random trash. The problem with hand 1 is that we are 6 handed blinds are 10/20 and he is shoving from utg. I took a look at my database and in my history with biood is utg shove range here is around 20% so Quantum is like 45% against his range not to mention the negative ICM ramifications of needlessly calling it off there.
+he has 3 people behind him who can still wake up with huge hands which is bad for him aswell.
06-25-2014 , 12:59 PM
I'm not a fan of pushing that loose with so many BBs left. But calling that loose is way worse in that stage. Its a really bad way to adopt to his playing style. I mean biood1 (I take him just as an example) does it vs everyone and probably won't notice or care much about adoption. People tend to take loose plays personally. By playing loose Biood exploits most of the players especially in the later stage as long as they dont adjust appropriately.

edit: Keep in mind that you usually can push wider than calling. Especially in hypers there are only few situations where that statement is not true.

Last edited by Prophili; 06-25-2014 at 01:05 PM.
06-25-2014 , 02:09 PM
OK folks. I sat with biood for TWO GAMES and that is what I saw in TWO GAMES. No data-mining, just fun.

For the record, I would call biood with anything even half-playable from any position in any game I think.

I mean a cpl days ago I'm saying how I don't like 4 5 (4 6) utg and was implying that I would read the play (as in surely not scared of aces lol) and call with a huge range. I would have been disappointed in myself if I folded A 2 3 X vs biood and as it turned out, I'm slightly better than a 3-1 dog for high and will make a winning low hand ~ 50%.

So hand 1 is standard, sure, nothing to report, other than showing the continued trend of utg shoves with a huge range and road-running the board. Should be noted that when we include the 3rd player, biood is actually a 65/32 dog for high and will only make nut low 2% while the opposition makes it 55%. So all things considered, I actually got in AHEAD in this hand and biood was in LAST. No wonder sensai juicy doesn't like it, he only ever likes getting all his chips in behind, especially vs me.

Amazes me JJ has any criticism of any loose play considering I know for a 100% fact that JJ has never folded A 2 3 X in any game, at any stakes, in any situation. Juicy, when I see you perpetually shove 2 3 4 K utg with > 20BBs (outside HTs) and shove any 4 on button/SB, quite frankly my dear, if you claim a fold here, you can go **** yourself. And if you did fold there, as circumstance would have it, you would have folded the best hand.

ANYWAY, THIS IS NOT THE POINT.

I was trying to do biood a favour (yes, really) as I don't have much of a hate towards him (as opposed to say, juicy_j or billygofish haha). If I'm being honest, I never considered him a threat at any table. Sure, I am well aware he could bust me at any moment, but post-flop play is non-existent and it's not hard to pick up on the shove-rhythms.

I was trying to make the point to biood that auto-shoving mediocre hands utg is horrible under most circumstances. That the objective of the HT game is not to LOOK for 50/50 flips all the time but to try and engineer an edge like in any other game, or to use controlled aggression to position steal, maybe occasionally use the raw aggression to stack-rape the field if circumstance permits.

IMHO, I see little difference between biood and juicy and know for a fact that both would be better players if they just diluted the aggression factor by 20% (OK maybe 40% in biood's case). I mean HTs are barely even poker. Why are you guys (as self-certified pros earning a living from the game) not in there winning slow-blind MTTs or cash games? I'll tell you why. The psychology of what you guys feel you are ENTITLED to at the tables along with your general honey-badger levels of aggression really negate any possibility (barring huge luckboxing) that you will beat any solid field with confidence in their own abilities - abilities they test to the limit far less often than either of you do.

As for you BillyGfish - that's now 3 posts of mine you choose to troll since the last warning. In the weekly 215, you put all your chips in when behind (A 2 3 Q vs A A 3 5 or similar?), all be-it with a good hand. I got all my chips in ahead with a LARGE margin (I was > 3-1 to scoop with A 2 3 Q ds vs A 3 6 J ss) and bust. You deserved to bust, I didn't. That's the difference. You can claim bad luck, a set-up, waaaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, I put him on the correct RANGE - I was watching the hand and I knew exactly what you both held. Open your eyes fish and dial in your range-radar.

As for HTs and SnGs generally - you haven't been able to beat them over a calender year like juicy, wadzon, biood etc, so s t f u man, seriously. You put in the NUMBER ONE 500 game streak last year and then didn't even end up profitable for the year. Just wow. You can't beat the 18-man SnGs either, or cash, or even MTTs really, so what is the point of your existence? Thank you please for keeping your LOLtard thoughts to yourself
06-25-2014 , 02:47 PM
Trolling your post? I replied to booid and have have every right to post my opinion about the standard hands you posted.

Oh and more false facts. I played around 2.3k games in june/july last year and made 3.2k. Then played just over 1k games in nov/dec inbetween cashes sessions and lost 1.5kish so +1.7k for the year.

So using basic maths(you can do it) 3.2k -1.5k = +1.7k for the calendar year. But it's not even a proper sample size so w/e. Sure doesn't mean I am unable to comment on hands and even if I am wrong i'll post my opinion if I want to.

Funny thing is I was saying that both of your calls I think were ok v booid. Lol at you saying you were trying to help booid.

Oh and lol and my shove from bb with aq23 with 17 bb not standard after a single OR from a aggro reg opening in MP with an 80bb stack. **** it's standard versus any1 that isn't a super nit. Say maybe i'd flat versus you huh. But yeah of course you knew exacly what we both had. wtf lol. And please tell every1 why exactly you were watching me..I guy you clearly hate. A little pathetic you're still stalking me no?

Booid's right about a few things...and spot on about you being mentally ill thats for sure.
06-25-2014 , 02:51 PM
personally I played a lot of different formats in my poker carrier, MTT's included, I was succesfull in PLO/PLO hi/lo mtts and i also played PLO 6 max cash and PLO HU up to PLO200 for months. I just like NLO 8 most and 6max hypers are most fun for me +getting me a great hourly.

SO now this is for quantum: dude, pls stop doing hand analasys or do it in a correct way. The way you think about hands in retro-aspect is like People did this in 2004 maybe. If you want to know if a Callis good, then you need to put your actual hand against the shoving RANGE of openent and think about ICM, players behind aswell. this is the ONLY way to figure out if its good or not and that call in the first hand is CLEARLY not good. I think,I never shoved anything less then top 30% of hands UTG for 25 BB's and even against 30% range you are 47,35% Equity.

EQUITY BRO, EQUITY... go away with your 3-1 for hi and 5-3 for lo expectations. thats just such big bull****.
06-25-2014 , 02:59 PM
So I cant beat HT's 18 mans, mtt's or cash huh.

Well I could post winning graphs in everything up to 3/6 cash last year but i'm not just to prove myself to you. I think maybe I did post my winning 3/6 graph at some point though. You can search for it if you like. You're good at that.

So where in these stats is a player that cannot beat all the forms you mentioned? The sample size of the sngs is too small but it sure would suggest I can beat the games more than can't. lol at you think I wouldn't be able to beat 18 mans....I wonder if you actually really believe that.

I've won twice as much \$ as you in O8. If I hadn't been robbed in the SCOOP 2K PLO8would have been 4 times.

06-25-2014 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biood1
personally I played a lot of different formats in my poker carrier, MTT's included, I was succesfull in PLO/PLO hi/lo mtts and i also played PLO 6 max cash and PLO HU up to PLO200 for months. I just like NLO 8 most and 6max hypers are most fun for me +getting me a great hourly.

SO now this is for quantum: dude, pls stop doing hand analasys or do it in a correct way. The way you think about hands in retro-aspect is like People did this in 2004 maybe. If you want to know if a Callis good, then you need to put your actual hand against the shoving RANGE of openent and think about ICM, players behind aswell. this is the ONLY way to figure out if its good or not and that call in the first hand is CLEARLY not good. I think,I never shoved anything less then top 30% of hands UTG for 25 BB's and even against 30% range you are 47,35% Equity.

EQUITY BRO, EQUITY... go away with your 3-1 for hi and 5-3 for lo expectations. thats just such big bull****.
+1 yeah funny **** but so true. He'll never get it though that's the thing.

m