What is the obsession with edge cases? Maybe somewhere at some point in time there was a child who's life was made slightly worse by listening to rap music but you know what we are sure of? That everywhere at all points in time countless childrens lives are being made worse by institutional racism. It's stupid to give any credence to the rap music "discussion" because it has the minutest of effects if any at all. It's actually very harmful because it turns the fault inward 'well if they'd just stop listening to those rappers they'd be able to go get a job.' It's insidious racist bull**** and I really don't see the great benefit in giving those who spout it the benefit of the doubt. Especially when they are pretty clear that they aren't going to change their minds.

1980 data isn’t a good baseline since it predates gangsta rap and the crack epidemic. If, instead, we compare the data from 1990 to 2010: the “black arrest rate for drug offenses” decreased 14%, whereas the “white arrest rate for drug offenses” increased 45%. The black rate is still about 2.7x the white rate, but over the same period that's down from 4.9x.

As far as the influence from gangsta rap, from 1990 to 2010 the “black arrest rate for murder” decreased 57%, compared to a 45% decrease for whites.

Source: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dato...ests/index.cfm

It depends of the conservative. When they tried to ban 2live crew, not for violence but for sexuality it was pure religious right culture warring. When Obama is smeared for having hip hop bbqs, it is either racism, partisanship, or both.

When someone says they don't like the message of the guy who frequently brags about selling 'ice cream', smacking hoes, and gunning people down for fun- I agree and so do plenty of hip hop artists.

Again, It is nothing new. KRS-One and Boogie Down Productions released 'stop the violence in hip hop' in the late 80's. The Beastie Boys apologizing for misogyny and glorifying violence after Paul's Boutique- still the greatest hip hop album ever made even with the sketchy content.

Hip hop is as diverse as music itself, that is the main message people who are uninformed about it should understand.

The good denizens of Baja Politardia get only one guess as to which poster has the most posts ITT.

What about all the black leaders who make the same arguments? Insidious racist bs?

Yes. The argument is racist and harmful to the interests of oppressed minorities. One is not necessarily a racist for espousing the idea, but if you maintain it in the face of the clear evidence already presented itt (direct anti-correlations between the popularity of rap music and the incidence of crimes for example) then you begin to look more and more suspect.

Do you have a point or just more ignorant mockery? How you ever got a position of authority here with your mocking and uncurious disposition is a mystery. You must kiss ass really well behind the scenes.

Bingo... and bingo.

Let's try again... (a) could you backup your claim of mischaracterization with an example? (b) Excluding Silver_Man2, have you ever said anyone shouldn't call someone else a racist?

I'll bet you'll double down, once again refuse to converse, and go 0-4.

This prefix is pure jibber-jabber. You do this a lot. Cut it out, and people will stop asking you to shut up as much.

Barring private moderation action, or real world threats... I know you've been asked to shut up. It's the interwebs, nobody but the mods can 'tell' or 'make' you shut up. You've stated the exact same thing several times yourself... in fact you've promised not to shut up. So if someone can't 'make' you shut up, and can't 'tell' you to shut up... all they're doing is asking you to shut up.

More jibber-jabber. Remember sir, Hate cannot drive out hate ~~~ AlexM

Doesn't it strike you as funny that the latest big kerfluffle showed Mr. Wookie actually criticizing how the authority figures were behaving? And yet, you, who did some nice kiss assing still ended up de-modded?

Probably not.

You fail to kill the messenger again. Great mistake on your part thinking the my observation of your foolishness equals hate. Your burden to bear, not mine.

There's a pretty strong contingent of social scientists who believe violence in media (especially video games) can increase violent behavior. I'm not convinced, but I'm not confident enough to say it absolutely doesn't. Same might be said for music promoting violence...it's not really that much of a stretch, is it?

My mockery is not ignorant. It is informed by clicking the "who posted?" button.

Taking responsibility for mistakes is not ass kissing. Did you ever post my side of the mod forum conversation where you acted like a dick?

That's not informative, it is meaningless. You have revealed your own poorly considered motives.

As long as you're comfortable calling guys like Al Sharpton racist. I think you've tried to make the issue more simple that it is. I'm still in the rap camp, but I don't think it should be immune to criticism.

I'm on the fence as well. I do not think that there is harm in fantastic portrayals of violence like in cartoons, but do consider there is some validity to youth having the wrong example set for them. Also, de-sensitization is something to consider and how much that might promote cognitive bias to assume graphic violence in media is harmless.

My response to asiannit really got some posters all fired up it seems. Go read it again if it is causing cognitive discomfort or provoking meaningless response.

Why would homeless looking folks provoke fear on sight?

Today two of the hardest working advocates for the homeless in my area had their grant expire and it was not renewed. It is a population at increasing risk, not one to be feared.

No one is saying it is immune to criticism. There are a lot of rap songs that are homophobic and misogynistic and they should rightfully be called out as so. But that is not a situation specific to rap songs nor is it particularly more prevalent in the rap community than any other part of modern media. If you find violent imagery distasteful (as I do) you should be concerned that the best selling video game of all time is simply about killing people as fast as you can over and over again for no reason or that the biggest movie heroes are the one's with the biggest body counts. If a person singles out rap for criticism out of all the awful media out there it speaks to their motivations.

You're probably right, but for all we know they are big critics of blurred lines too, they might even consider it hip hop. You missed your chance to trap them. Might have won another big pot.

Because they're desperately poor, and more often than a rando will have a debilitating mental illness or serious problem with addiction?

Just being desperately poor is reason enough to be wary. If I was starving and struggling against the elements, I'd probably do stuff I wouldn't do otherwise.

Where is the trap? Someone spouts racist crap, I call it racist crap, they go off in a huff because I'm not 'open minded' to their racist crap. If he said "oh jeez I've never thought of it like that I guess singling out rap doesn't make any sense." Then I'd have been like "don't worry about it we all make mistakes, I probably make more than anyone." He wanted confirmation of his racist crap and accused me of shutting down debate by not giving it to him. I'm happy to have a conversation about the deleterious effects of the media in society but not one where the focus is artificially narrowed due to a racist lens.

Once again, you lead out with a generous helping of jibber-jabber... why do you do this? And once again...

Yep, I won by 'bet' again. You're now 0-4, and still refusing to have any conversation.

IDK what your foolish observation is. That wasn't the topic at hand. I'll try again, and see if you actually wanna have a conversation.

If a person can 'make' you shut up, and can't 'tell' you to shut up... they're asking you to shut up. A simple agree/don't agree would be nice. And... I'll ask for a third time my two questions above.

Let's see if you go 0-3, and bring your record to 0-7. You seem to be doing a whole lotta work to avoid having any conversation.

Of course, you finish with another serving of jibber-jabber.

I think you have this wrong.

Its not edge cases, kids are massively influenced by the popular culture they grown up with especially when its in troubled situations. Where the negative influence case goes wrong its that its most likely untrue.

As i said before I cant speak about the modern stuff but ozzy osborne has been mentioned and that's a great example. Black Sabbath were a big influence on a section of my generation. They were portrayed as some horrific evil damaging the kids but the reality was they were a positive influence to a lot of us.

If anyone wants to dispute this I will happily explain more, I can still remember the chilling anti hard drug messages, the anti-devil stuff which was highly moral and perhaps more controversially (though not for me) the anti-war stuff.

That's just one example but it seems most likely its true today as well. What is very unlikely is that the popular culture isn't a big influence or that the headlines reflect the reality.

I've interact with countless homeless people of various appearances and states of mental health- never had a problem. Maybe you have some assumptions that are mistaken?