I haven't had an issue with this, although I'm sure it happens from time to time. Certain regs in certain games may be doing things jokingly and have certain quirks that you catch on to over time, but based on your description, it doesn't sound like one of them, and is clearly a guy shooting angles all night. Sorry for you had bad experience - next time call the floors over, and make sure he's warned or something. While rulings may vary, just brining attention to it, and letting everyone know will help prevent it in the future.

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I would say that's not the norm at all, though of course you always have to be on guard for angleshooters. If I had to make a guess, I'd say he was probably from out of town.

I'm not 100% sure on the way this rule applies, but I was under the impression that if you check out of turn, you can't bet or raise even if the action changes before it gets to you. Here's the rule from RROP:

But I think it would apply, because if the action hadn't changed, he would be bound to the check anyway, so there would be no reason for this rule. I think this rule was put in to specifically stop the type of angleshooting you describe. I believe he only has the option to call or fold.

Knowing what he is doing, can't you just exploit it?

If another player or two left your first table in the time it took them to notice you had moved (I'm assuming one of the players complained to a floor when you moved), they will make you go back. Even if you're on the transfer list, you should verify with a brush/floor that it's OK for you to move in order to avoid potential issues like this.

(That said, if your first table was still 8 handed the whole time after you moved and they forced you to go back and make them 9 handed, then yes that is quite odd and I've never had it happen in the thousand times I've transferred to other tables.)

Yes it was still 8-handed after I moved. It was tables 2 & 13 so I could see exactly what was going on.

Not sure why you are surprised. This happens everyday. The more common angle is I'm all in blind because I didn't look at my cards...yes I promise to God and I swear on my mother's life! Just kidding I actually have a monster pair. The bottom feeders of society lurk here so naturally this is what you deal with.

Interesting thing yesterday. Afternoon thunderstorm hits, and you can hear the rain just pounding the tin roof. Then water starts dripping down onto the table next to ours. The roof leaks. So they had to close the table. I wonder with all the cameras and AC stuff up there if they had any damage to that stuff.

Guess that's what happens when you stay for years in the "temporary room".

Throwing this out there for those interested in the 10/20 O8 game that's been held recently.

A few weeks back there was an issue that upset a lot of players. I wasn't there at the time, but this is my understanding of the situation:

The 10/20 game had been raked the week prior (the first week we ran it) and we had two tables running. On the second week of the game a number of players arrived earlier and got it started around 4:15pm with cards in the air around 4:20pm.

A time charge was taken immediately at the start of the table, then 10 minutes later a new dealer shows up and they want to charge the $6 time per person again. Players complain to the floor, floor won't give them a break, four guys get up and storm off.

I arrived around 5pm or so, we get the game running again, I hear some griping (the four players that left didn't return). The game winds up being full with a wait list of 5-6 players (i.e. they could've had a second table going again)

We get a couple of dealers that are really slow in our rotation while we're paying the time charge. Then one of the dealers arrives, counts the well/till and recounts it, believing it to be off by $7. She calls the floor. We wait, and wait.....floor arrives, counts it, it's over by $11. Meanwhile, 10 minutes have passed and we haven't gotten any hands in, but we've paid our time charge.

So a lot of players were grumbling that they wanted the game to be on rake, some also wanted it jackpot eligible.

This past Saturday (our third week of running the game) Tommy (poker room director) shows up and tells us he doesn't care about the revenue, he's interested in customer service and wants to do what we the players want.

Nine players at the table say rake, one player says time (guy from NJ). Tommy says all the players have to agree, so he can't change it right now, but he'll talk to his superiors this week and let us know if he has to submit anything special to get that done, etc. We also had one more incident that night where a waitress spilled a soda on the table so we all had to move to another table (no forgiveness was issued on the time charge in this instance, it did occur prior to Tommy coming in)

I just spoke with him at the casino yesterday at the same time one of our regs was talking to him. That reg had been upset about the time charge initially, but has now changed his tune because last Saturday we had a number of fast dealers in our rotation who were getting in 18 hands on their downs and that paying time in those instances is better than rake.

Tommy said we should let him know what we want to do so he can let his people know how it should be run. He said that once it's a certain way, it needs to stay that way, we can't go back and forth between rake and time charge.

So I've been asked to poll people interested in the game and get the majority opinion and bring it back to him.

I arrived at the table at exactly 4:20pm, after the game started. The next time charge came at 4:35pm. That's when players complained that they had only been playing 10 to 15 minutes, but it was actually more like 20 minutes+. The underlying problem was that it took about 10 minutes for the dealer to get the game started after the players sat down, from what I gathered, so the down was short.

There will always be some slow downs and some outside forces causing the game to slow (calling the floor, spilled drinks, miscounted tills, etc.). The fast downs are the exception, not the rule, especially for a hi/lo split game (was it really 18 hands/down - hard to believe).

I'd favor rake over time - mainly because players will complain about the slows and any hesitation by a player if it's time - which will cause all sorts of friction and eventually tear apart the game. Time charge is more appropriate for PLO (or PLO8), which is faster and the time charge is a much smaller amount compared to the size of the pots and stacks.

As someone that will rarely play this game but does play bigger games, I think pot rake is likely the smoothest way to go.

Absolutely, pot rake is far better than time for this game. The few players who prefer time generally accept pot rake with no issues, but the many players who prefer pot rake-- as we have witnessed-- get PISSED when it's timed, and will be reminding you of it every time there's a not-so-fast dealer, or there's a misdeal, or someone ponders a call for more than 6 seconds, etc.

If you actually kept track, I think you'd find long term that it's just about break-even comparing pot vs. time. So the player happiness factor itself is enough to make pot rake a no-brainer, not to mention a smidgen of extra high-hand/royal flush/bad beat equity.

Incidentally, if full ring O8 ever gets 18 hands in a down, that's not just about a fast dealer-- that's also about a lineup that's not very good. Let's hope that isn't the case this Saturday!

Good points all around. When the players who don't pay attention to the rake have it taken out of pots they've won, they don't notice it. When a dealer is hitting them up every thirty minutes for six bucks, and there are delays, they notice the rake.

I'm in the pot rake camp myself, but figured I'd check with the folks who have an interest in the game so I can bring it to Tommy. Thanks for the input, keep it coming

Question on straddles. Well, not really a question since I know the answer, but here goes....

Guy is straddling nearly every hand. Sometimes he forgets and puts the straddle out after half the 1st cards are dealt (but not yet his card). Somebody complains. Dealer says the rule is as long as the straddler has not seen a card yet, he can straddle. Complainer says wait a minute, I've been told otherwise a million times. Dealer gets agitated (more agitated than the complainer), calls the the floor who backs up the dealer.

Later complainer asks a different supervisor who says you cant straddle once the first card is dealt on the table.

My understanding is the complainer and the 2nd supervisor are correct and the first supervisor just didn't want to show up the dealer, who for unknown reasons was emotionally invested in the decision. Is that correct?

It *should* be that a straddle isn't allowed once the first card is in the air but I've been in games where it's been ruled both ways.

Frankly, if someone is straddling every hand from every position, I let it be. Putting dead money in the pot from OOP is +EV for me. Plus, agitating the fish is -EV for everybody.

This is one rule I've seen THR be consistent on 100% of the time until you mentioned this. I've never seen a dealer knowingly allowing a straddle after the first card is out (though in the bigger games they may let it slide if it's close and no one is objecting). And for a floor to back it up is even more bizarre.

Dealers have their own preferences on enforcing this. Some say once any cards are dealt there can't be a straddle. Most will allow it late if the straddle has been going out every hand and is late by mistake. I've never had an issue where the floor needed to be called, so I can't say what the floor would or should rule. Like everything else, and also your example shows, it will depend on which supervisor rules in that instance.

I've always heard it described as the strddle has to be out before first card is dealt. But in practice I often see it come out a little late and no one says anything. I'm surprised though that a supervisor would actually rule its before guy looks. I'm sure thats incorrect.

But I have seen some floors who feel obligated to back up their dealers, so sort of bend things in order to not make the dealer look bad. Once two players were heads up, and one player showed his cards to "get a read" and after the hand the dealer told him he cant do that. Player said he could heads up, dealer says no.

Floor gets called to clarify. Floor acts very gruff, says "what are you showing your cards for? Dont show your cards" and leaves. Dealer sort of acts like "see, told you so". I was sitting next to her, and hadnt been involved. But I quietly said to her "did you notice he never actually said it was against the rules? You might want to check on this later".

if you don't think the guy is angling (and obviously he's not in this situation as he's straddling every hand), who cares? the only reason to try and get it overturned is if you really don't like straddles and you're looking for a technicality to get out of it. your problem is with the room allowing straddles, not this guy getting his money out a half second late.

i never straddle myself, but i have no preference to straddles being in the game either way.

i just re-read my post. and laughed at saying "i never straddle myself"

May's Mon-Thurs promotion was one of the worst, due to no rollover. 25 hours in fours days.

So for June--they made it worse. Now it's 30 hours, no rollover. High hands on weekends, again, when it's really not needed to bring in people.

Anyone know the structure of the Thursday 7pm survivor and how many runners it usually gets? Thanks

Structure is like 15/20 minute levels 10k starting chips, and less than 50 runners usually. Meh, overall.

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Coming in July: $500 for 25 hours of live play!*

* hours must be completed between Monday July 6th at noon and Monday July 6th at 8 pm

Haven't seen it in print yet, but I was told by two supervisors yesterday that in June the hours will, in fact, roll over from one week to the next.

edit: actually, just saw it in print on the website, and it says "one week period" like for May. I wonder if that's true, or if marketing forgot to change the fine print from the last flyer.

confirmed last night that even though they forgot to update the fine print on the June promo flyer, which still says it must be done in a one week period, in fact the hours will roll over, so whenever you hit the 30 hours you can get the $100.

That's good. The May promotion was garbage except if you're a total degen reg (and they ain't going anywhere else) or a full time pro (and they don't care about the puny promotion).

The high hand promotion seems to work pretty well at getting people in there and they should expand it to more hours even though my high hand JT on a JJJTT board got sniped with under a minute last night. I tried to argue a 7 card full house beats 4 aces, but they didn't buy it.