Have we heard his side of the story? I want a good laugh and see what he says

Based on the fact that he's been a face at borgata for 10 years and the fact he now chooses to play at other places speaks volumes to me. He's prob a degen so will end up paying at some point. Degens gonna degen. Also forgot to mention he was sitting at 2-5 with a $100 stack so he's prob totally busto

Any estimates on the number of runners for the Borgata's Mini-Series $100k GT ($150+30) ? Tournament runs Sunday Aug 4-Aug 8.

Can anyone confirm whether Borgata uses the shuffleing machine during a tournament? I know Sands does, but Revel and Showboat do not (not sure why).

It depends. If the mtt is all contained within the poker room, then yes. During seasonly series, the venues include event center/signature room, where tables don't have auto shufflers. In this instance the shufflers of tables in the poker room are not used either.

Thanks. At least when they don't use them, there's a reason that makes sense.

Will be at Borg tomm trying to start a 1/2 PLO

If the casino took rake from that hand then I strongly believe it should be the casino's priority to find the victim his money regardless on which method they choose to use

What you strongly believe and what the law says are two different things. A casino in New Jersey does not have the legal authority to demand that a player give money to another player.

He never said it had to come from the other player. I think what he's saying is that if the casino is going to take revenue generated from the hand (i.e. the rake) then they <should> bear some responsibility in making sure the parties involved in said hand are made whole.

The casino does bear <some> responsibility by banning the player if he or she doesn't pay and helping facilitate having charges pressed against the player, all of which a casino will do even though they are not legally required to.

What, you want the casino to cover the debt? Yeah, let word of that get out...

Player A loses a huge pot to Player B but refuses to pay. Casino does the "right thing" and pays Player B. Player A is banned, changes are filed by Player B.

Then Player A and B have a good laugh about it at a strip club an hour later and several weeks later, Player B subsequently decides not to pursue the matter in court. Nice scam that the casino would be powerless to stop.

Well yeah that would be silly on the casino's part. Everyone and their mother would take advantage of that.

Not true. Same as a blackjack bet or any other game where the casino's money is at stake. Make the casino responsible for paying, and they will make sure the dealer collects the money in the pot before proceeding to play out the hand. Problem solved. Same as when a player acts as bank in pai gow or baccarat. The fact that a player can be cheated by another at poker is just ridiculous at a casino. No better than a home game or a mob game, and actually worse because friends don't generally rip people off at home games, and try doing that a mob game!

Problem isn't solved. Instead it opens up a can of worms aside from the obvious scam I mentioned. It is not a good precedent that a third party is responsible for the debts of someone else.

SYou're advocating making sweeping changes of liability that open up loopholes and scam artists to a ton of things a lot more likely to occur. To combat something that happens... how often? No hard numbers but I would say it is exceedingly rare that someone refuses to pay and continues to do so even after the casino does what it can.

In the room I work in, in three years as one of the busier rooms on the east coast, it has happened exactly zero times.

Anyone play in the 10/20 Omaha game? How is the game in terms of skill level? I haven't been down since it was O.E. so I'm just wondering what's changed.

The usual low-stakes mix of a few good players, a bigger assortment of average ones and about a quarter or more of them who are poor or bad. The mix depends on day of the week and time of day.

doesn't make sense to me still. i see the argument about opening up possibility of a scam. but this is why we're playing in a casino: to have a controlled game where the players are protected by the casino. and it's not like we're playing with cash. we're playing with casino chips. i have no idea how or how much the casino should take responsibility, but i think stepping aside is just wrong.

and why can't the casino go after the villain for more than the money stolen? why wouldn't there be some criminal/civil penalties that would make a scam unprofitable? seems nuts that this guy can just give the money back and have no other consequences. shouldn't this be an automatic industry wide ban.... running out of a casino with stolen chips?

So in your estimation if someone gets robbed in a casino parking lot should the casino be obligated to repay the person who was robbed? If not, why is it any different?

yes. i expect a casino to keep their garages safe.

i can also see some clear differences between stealing casino chips off a casino table on a casino floor in a casino game with a dealer there, floor, security and camera all nearby, than stealing otherwise.

Dangle,

Thanks for the heads up. It's a public service to get these things out in the open. Censorship of these issues means allowing the same thing to happen again elsewhere.

Parx had a similar incident a couple months back where the dealer announced a player as 2k behind while a chip runner was working, but wouldn't force the player to put his chips in the middle when he lost the hand

Seems like Parx keeps inheriting players that get kicked out of Borgata, and that sux.

There are a ton of stories out there where the casino will either not enforce action or (worse IMO) will let players' chips get stolen while they are gone.

Protect yourself. Always get the pot right before showing your hand against everyone but good friends.

I don't get this "sheering sheep" talk. Sounds like BK got the best scenario he could imagine - free rolling with AAxx - and lost.

My question is what BK does if he looks down at Q952? Then you're the one getting "sheered" if he decides he doesn't want to flip anymore. You got lucky twice: once when he decided to actually flip and once when you won the hand.

bottom line is this - if dealers like yourself did their job properly, all the money would have been in the middle of the table and this never would have happened.

This. But I would go one step further and say if the casinos made dealers responsible for making the pot right just as much as taking the rake, a lot of these situations get solved.

I'm guilty of not always putting my chips in the middle. Particularly if I'm pretty certain I have the winning hand, if someone bets the river I will just verbally say "call" and expect him to flip over his cards. I don't want to put all my chips in the center just to pull them right back out.

However there have been times where I have verbally called the river and the other player demanded I put my chips in. I'm sure he's insisting on it for the exact reasons being discussed here, that some people shoot angles and he doesn't want to get burned. In those cases I of course put my chips in since I'm aware that those are the rules.

This is my way of saying that while its the dealer's responsibility to manage the game, the player should also have an awareness and enforce when the dealer doesn't do his job. Same as protecting your cards at all times, or the pot shipped to the wrong player, mistakes do happen that would be prevented by an attentive player.

if we want to get into technicalities of it all... why is it if the chips are across the line THEN it's the casino's responsiblity, but if they're just on the tables before the line it's not?

how about, if it's casino chips on the table the rules must be followed; a verbal call is binding... those chips are in the pot regardless of where on the table they physically rest.

Man this topic is not dying, I was at Borgata this weekend and a lot of people were talking about Burger King guy, even some of the dealers were laughing at his ridiculous incident.