Yeap, reading the full charges that's what occurs to me. And fraud is the most serious charge there, if I'm correct? They fought for honorable means, were rebuked, settled on illegitimate means, and now we're all ****ed. But we maybe would've all been hosed earlier had they not done it. Basically this is all predicated upon govt bs, unless I'm quite mistaken. I'm so sick of letting most of these people help run our country anyway, maybe this will be a good turning point...

TY Skalla and Engineer. Donated some monies and called my reps/senators. Good luck guys. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.

CA pokerstars cash games locked!

Anyone think the reason they waited this long to unleash the big hammer is this is just one last, giant money grab before poker becomes legal in most or all of the US?

Once that happens, the DOJ doesn't get the easy, occasional seizing of a payment processor, and these companies will all settle for huge amounts of money for the promise that they will be able to serve US customers in the event that poker becomes regulated.

Or is it a coincidence that this happened shortly after large names in the online gambling world partnered with large names in the B&M gambling world?

TE, you know that I have been a premium member of the PPA since its founding. However, I did not contribute any money in 2011. Why? Because, I wanted the PPA to get its head out of the sand and stop beating it against the wall. No matter how many poker players write, email or call their politicians it won't help.

Do you think that the PPA should sue now? This is why I wanted the PPA to initiate litigation against the DOJ. Such litigation might have prevented today's DOJ action or at least put the battle in a forum most favorable to our side.

But that is water over the bridge. The truth is that it is not TE or the PPA's fault that the USA is so close to being an authoritarian state where the government rules everything. Nor is it their fault that the rule of law is rapidly ending in the US.

However, I urge the PPA to start its own legal action now seeking a declaratory judgment that online poker is legal in the US. IMO, the defendants in the new DOJ indictment will hide or make a plea deal. Likely the foreign owners of FTP, PS and Cereus will leave the US market, go out of business and/or evade US prosecutors. The US defendants, SunFirst and the other payment processors, will cut a plea deal. So the only way that US poker players can fight this in court is through the PPA.

Right now depositing money to sites like Carbon or Bodog is not feasible. So the only avenue to fight back is in court. The political battle is useless right now. By the time that it could be won, online poker will not exist in the US and will be forgotten. The doomsayers were correct. So now the fighting and winning the legal battle is the only hope for online poker in the US.

If the PPA cannot fight in court for US poker players, then IMO it is useless and online poker is essentially finished in the US.

And you wonder why the US is in such a deep recession. This just means more lost jobs and money. For the first time in my 56 years of life. I am sorry that I am a US citizen. If I could, I would leave.

Sorry for the rant.

Also I've not gotten a reply from Stars. I sent the e-mail pretty quickly after the lockout.

The sky may be falling after all. Already cashing out most of my roll.

Does anyone know if We the players are in any danger from the Feds since we placed bets on their sites? If so, how serious do you think it would be for the player? thanks

i can't believe all the major US sites...were in essence...working together.

There can't be ANY silver lining with what measures they took to process the money correct?

Well, government BS (specifically, the UIGEA and the DOJ's construction of the Wire Act) certainly started it. But as I said in my earlier post, even though I don't think very highly of the DOJ's interpretation of the Wire Act, their actions were entirely predictable if you give any thought about the sorts of threats that a multi-billion dollar offshore unregulated gaming business posed to various state and federal laws.

So as crappy as the government acted, you have to basically take that as a given and say what was the best course forward for poker players and for the sites. I suspect, as I said, that the sites thought it was best to just keep going as long as they could and wait and see what happens rather than bringing a legal challenge that (1) they might lose resulting in total loss and criminal prosecution (even if that chance was only, let's say, 10 percent) and (2) would have probably required that site owners come to the US to attend a trial where they would have been subject to US legal process.

I do want to say one thing. One group that DID understand what the stakes were was the PPA. They took a lot of crap here for endorsing imperfect poker bills that contained a lot of provisions that gave some players headaches, but they quite understood that the DOJ had a lot of power and that we were negotiating from a very difficult position and needed to take any reasonable bill.

Ok, we all knew this day was going to get here eventually if this wasn't legalized. I too am stuck like many of you and I'm pissed. I am serving in the U.S. military and have done so faithfully for 20+ years, protecting the freedoms of US citizens... but this is a bit ridiculous! I agree that fraudulent bank transactions, if founded, is probably crossing the line... but preventing US poker players playing on the sites is definitely out-of-line. Especially true with discussion of Wash D.C. looking to legalize online gambling sites--seems if you can't beat your competition, shoot them directly in the kneecaps.

I'm don't ranting here about this topic, the rest of my ranting will be with my elected officials (https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml), I recommend you do the same. Let's legalize online poker, tax it to offset our budgeting problems, and get on with our lives!

Harrah's and other Indian gaming will create new online sites in D.C. They pay off government to shut down their competitors. Eazy game.

Is this not what's going on, or is there something even more obvious than this occurring?

No. The press reports are that a payment processor (who, ironically, was stupidly turned in to the USDOJ BY THE SITES because he was screwing them over) flipped and gave the feds a whole bunch of information about the sites' schemes to deceive banks and payment processors. This happened a few months ago.

It looks like August 6, 1945: the feds built their case and dropped the bomb as soon as it was ready.

I have gotten the same message for hours at home. But, even if I could I wouldn't, just hitting that button won't get you your money and with all the payment processor problems it is going to take a while.

I doubt it's coincidence. Timing is everything in the art of money making. So tired of rich a$$ people controlling everything.

delete

Note: Drudge has us in red at top left. Its big time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker...ory?id=6362238

ESPN's article on it.

Who are you referring to specifically?

i just don't believe that the online sites are this stupid, not too mention right after partnering with brick and mortar giants (maybe thing in dc fits in too idk), i'm not big on conspiracy stuff but this looks alot like the sites instigating change on the status quo to me

disagree. they did not support the NJ poker bill. youre giving the PPA too much credit.

Here's the article about the guy who flipped.

The timing's legit. The feds would have pursued this at any time if a guy like this fell into their laps.

http://www.businessinsider.com/boy-g...scandal-2011-4

Ceasar's and 888, but it's a nonsense idea.

It's more like the DOJ was trying to build a case, and it finally got a break.

I'm looking at this at a different angle, so I apologize if this comment is from left field.

Is the DOJ going after online poker or just the founders/executives of these big name poker sites? I think the latter. And if that's true, why shut down these sites? If the DOJ is going after online poker, wouldn't they shut down all poker sites?

Again, sorry. I'm just thinking out loud.

It's always a conspiracy, that's how big moves and big money are made. Politics only happens because someone is to benefit. So exactly who, and when we'll have to wait and see.

Online sites going to the DOJ about this kid "boy wonder" is a joke.

It's a reasonable question. There are probably many answers, but one of them is this-- suppose you are the CEO of some other poker room that accepts American players. What does this indictment and the process that led to it tell you about what may happen to you and your business if you attempt to process bank deposits and withdrawals involving US players?