If you can only choose from a handful of US regulaed sites that are taxed in the same way, there will be normal and predictable pressure to up the rake to horseracing levels. The pre black friday climate permitted choosing from pokersites regulated and taxed in different ways.

Seems the sites were also playing poker by being corrupt and then turning on one another and everyone is upset at the government, blame the poker sites, their greed made a site turn in the big wig that knew everything who in turn rolled on everyone. REally know how much did this dude make out with that the poker site would turn him in. SO STUPID AND SHORT SIGHTED and none of the sites cared that in could effect all you people making a living off poker. OH well keep blaming the government and dont put any of it on the stupidity of the poker site that brought down all the heat.

the government failed to pass anything to regulate and tax online poker. They took this route instead.

Blame the government for being stupid with their resources. They could have long been making money off of FT and PS

That's wrong. First of all, we haven't seen that in brick and mortar. Indeed, horse racing commissions HAVE mucked with takeout over the years, but brick and mortar poker rooms haven't faced similar regulatory pressure.

And second, it ignores how powerful casino conglomerates here. Indeed, I seem to be somewhat unique in that I, for one, (with apologies to The Simpsons) welcome our new Harrah's overlords. Having a gigantic casino conglomerate running an online poker room means having a VERY effective and experienced political player when it comes to legislative efforts to harm poker players through excessive rake and taxation and the like.

Corrupt? Did you or anyone you know get cheated by anyone at the pokersites? They offered a service, I voluntarily chose to play. They always paid me, even when confronted with difficult legal challenges to doing so.

The government (my fellow citizens like you) forcibly brought our voluntary relationship to our mutal benefit to an end. Who should I be upset with again?

Think about witholding taxes on mtt winnings, like with superfectas. That will be nice. Or the irs reporting on cashouts, winning, etc.

But, I do think the cost of financial transactions will go down.

DUDE THE IDIOTIC POKER SITES BROUGHT THE HEAT ON THEMSELVES, they told the government the main dude was in the US. WHAT DID the poker sites expect a gold medal of honor. PLEASE, the poker sites didnt think twice about putting everyone FUN OR LIVELYHOOD up for grabs by turning in this dude. What was the government to do , really, the arrested one of the main dude involved cause of a tip from the poker sites, now what did you expect the government to do once this guy laid out how the sites were laundering money. JUST IGNORE IT and so many post on these boards or so short sighted also. LETS PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS ON THE SITES they didnt need to run to the DOJ to narc out the dude who stole money from them, but everyone will go on their high and mighty MY FREEDOMS ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY, blame the site that narced out the main dude who knew how the whole operation worked

The following is my opinion,

I repeat, my opinion,

My anger has been growing for a long time over all of this infantile bull---t your society dishes out.

I want to help you all out. And my anger, fustration, and powerlessness can best be used, I figure, to help people understand a little better, maybe create words to what you are thinking...it has happened to me before. To perhaps, or perhaps not, educate others. Or create some solidarity.

Powerlessness, Power and the Psychopath.
Like many others I feel powerless. I see the mentally ******ed, the psychopaths, the idiots, the fascist/Nazi types, the pathologially lying in power. For god's sake we hired a psychopath for president. And there are lots of other psychopaths in Congress and lots on the Supreme Court.

Why can't you march on D.C.? Because you are all struggling, desperately, to survive in a society. You don't have time to get on a bus or drive to D.C., or have the money to do it. You got to go to work, so you can eat, and put that roof over your head, and if your luckier than me, you might even have enough to support a family.

The system is designed so you are powerless. The people who control almost every aspect of your life, the government and the corporations want us atomized. Atomized in our homes with very little social organization, just sit there watching TV, so the corporations can sculpt your values for their own needs. These are very selfish people, who don't care who they harm, or kill. The DOJ or FBI don't care if you lost your job or your lost your freedom, they are the BOSS and you should just take it. And as the BOSS they don't have to answer to you. These people are as mad as hatters. But this is what weak people want. They want control. Because they are so terrifed, so weak, that they create tall buildings, create industrial factories, systems of control, laws to control you. All this artifice is there as a pinnacle to how weak they are. Just look at these buildings as equal to how weak and pathetic all these people are. We have people in this country and all over the world who are stupid. And that's okay, because the world would be boring if we where all the same. We shouldn't look down on them, we should help them.

But when these stupid people get into power, something's wrong. Stupid people, or psychopathic people, or people with low IQs, or people serious cognitive problems should not be controlling goverments, in charge of the DOJ, in be in Congress, or on the Supreme Court; they should be washing the toilet at McDonalds.

And I have proof that they are there. There is suffering. We all suffer because these people are in charge. If they where not there, how wonderful the world would be, for example we could all play poker online along with France and China, it would be just like before 2006, and there would be fish. But now we are starving because there are less and less fish, taken out of our hand by some proclaimed "authority".

These dopes, these evil-nit-wits, had the luck of being born to rich parents who sent them to illustrous colleges. "You don't have to be smart or moral just pluck down $150,000, and your ****** or psychopatch child can become a world leader, a congress man, a CEO or be a part of the fascist/plutocratic regime called America." For all the weakness and limitations these people have, they can just hide behind money and power and never answer to anybody! We need to carefully examine these people. The American public needs to understand these are very limited, below average people, and recongize it right away and get these people out of control. How do you do that? Look up Psychopath, read, study. Go to the library. Most of us already know the law better then the DOJ just because we are on the internet sharing.

Freedom.
We have to fight for our freedoms. Because we all learned on April 15 and back in 2006 when UIGEA was passed that there is some moral imbicile just iching to limit our freedom to the point the world is hell, and then the childlike creature can scream, yell, jump up and down and clap his hands that all this destruction he has caused.

Freedoms are not given to you. The civil rights movement is a good example. As good people rose up, so did all the rednecks. There is something really wrong with many people in America, but instead of focus on why, focus on identifing them and making sure they have no power to control or threaten.

I guess calling the DOJ really pisses them off, so do that. Use the many resorces on the internet to email your congressmen. But what I think is best is a hand written letter, or maybe typed, to these bastards who do nothing, or do too much. They take your job, your freedom, your liberty, your happiness. Create marches, sure. And getting pissed off and telling people about it where ever you go helps too, because then people know they are not so alone. Because if we had the ability to gather the 10 million people who play poker in the United States, and we go visit the DOJ, they would be terrified. I think we would have enough people to pick up Preet and throw his ass on the front lawn.

I have a theory of why we poker players are such a threat to these wanna-be bigshots in the Senate or in Cogress, or Mayors. If all these, smart, hardworking honorable young people start making $100,000 a year they are going to threaten all the stupid, fascist, Nazi types in power. And I also think it has to do with human suffering and envy. These old people don't want to see you enjoying yourself, driving a modern car, sitting back, working hard for your honest living and having lots of sex.

If even one of us gets any power or control that's the beginning of the end; for them.

And a new start for the young people.

Smart, young poker players are going to donate to liberal ideas, and that's terrifying Conservatives. Or maybe they are just envious.

It's not about protecting us, it's always been protecting their intrests, and the people's intrest is very different, and stands in the way of the greedy and the selfish.

Do not stop, run them over.

We're getting deep in the weeds here, but actually the superfecta problem came about because wagering changed and tax rules didn't. (Which is also a problem with taxation of online poker, where the tax rules were written for single table cash play and the occasional poker tournament.)

The tax rules set a dollar and odds limit for reporting transactions. In the old days, the only horse race winnings you would EVER have to immediately declare to the IRS and face withholding on were very rare daily double payoffs involving a couple of longshots. Nothing else paid 300-to-1, which was the odds limit. Only a few horses in the history of pari-mutuel wagering have ever paid 300 to 1 to win.

But the advent of exotic wagering meant all sorts of bets now pay 300-to-1, which means there are a lot more withholding and reporting requirements.

What you are suggesting is that they will legalize poker and then jack up the rake / taxation. Experience suggests that this won't happen-- what COULD happen is that rules written for one era won't work very well or be rewritten in another.

Interesting text taken from FullTilt statement:
"As a result of the recent enforcement action, there exists no authorized U.S. payment channel through which to make refunds; Full Tilt Poker has no accounting of the millions of dollars of player funds that were seized by the government; and the government has not agreed to permit any of the seized player funds to be returned to the players".

The Stars statement sounds a lot more optimistic:

PokerStars statement on the blocking of players from the United States

20 April 2010 - On 15 April 2010, PokerStars ceased providing real-money poker to residents of the United States and related territories. Real money play and deposits by the US residents are strictly prohibited.

All existing United States PokerStars customers are entitled to the full return of any funds held in their accounts, and PokerStars will work diligently to expedite those withdrawals. An agreement has been reached with the US Department of Justice to allow for these cashouts. All PokerStars player deposits are completely safe. More information here.

Players from the United States can continue to play on our site for play money only. New players who wish to create an account will need to do so using our play-money-only software, available at http://www.pokerstars.net.

Longshot but if you're on FB support Tom Dwan's post here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=149

Direct FB Link:

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.ph...22119071195720

I am a newbie poster here. But I am going to put my two cents in here.

The news today regarding the DOJ allowing the big three to have the rights to their domain rights is just another step towards the US govt wanting their piece of the pie.

It's all been done before. The US govt just wants to be sure they get their cut--and I am sure Wynn and Ceasar's are, and have been hard at work building software that will compare to PS/FT so that when the legislation is passed to legalize, they will have the upper hand on getting the BRs from US players on their sites.
And off site companies will be highly taxed to the point they will not want to deal with transactions with US players.

And I am sure Wynn knew this when he pulled out of his contract with PS right before the DOJ started running down the streets looking for blood.

It's amazing what the govt will do to ensure they are getting paid.

Again, anyone who tries to make this a party issue is on awfully shaky ground. Neither party gives a ****ing **** about poker.

First off, I am by no means a lawyer, but I have been a good bit of reading since Friday....

So my question is does the UIEGA actually ban internet poker? From my reading about the UIEGA it outlaws funding of internet gambling from banks that are already outlawed by other FEDERAL or STATE regulations or laws. So the UIEGA actually just outlaws the funding, not the actual gambling. If this is correct, there has to be some other FEDERAL or STATE regulation or law for the funding to be illegal.

So lets look at Federal law. Is there any Federal law that prohibits internet poker? There are federal laws that prohibit internet gambling, but there has been a case that looked at poker specfically that the Suprement Court refused to review. The federal circuit court ruled that poker was not a game of chance, and therefore not gambling but rather a game of skill. So unless the prior case law is changed, from what I understand, poker is not gambling. So UIEGA would not be in effect for the entire US...

So, lets look at State law...yes, there are states that prohibit specifically online poker, or poker in any form...ahh but wait. There is also the Commerce Clause when dealing with International Commerce. So the Commerce Clause, again from what I understand, says that the states can not regulate commerce that is national or international in nature, that only the federal government has the right to regulate national or international commerce.

So back to the UIEGA, which again, bans funding of internet gambling that is regulated by Federal or State law. Well, the feds have not shown that poker is gambling, actually the contrary, the courts have ruled the poker is a skill game. The regulated by the State portion of UIEGA will not apply because online poker, in its current form, is International Commerce, thus under the Commerce Clause any State law can not be enforced. So, the UIEGA should not be in effect for internet poker.


Since the sites weren't actually breaking a law for funding internet poker, a skill game, the conspiracy charge is invalid because they would have had to actually try to break a law to be accused of conspiracy. Even if they thought they were breaking a law, but they weren't, they aren't guilty (no, I don't agree with the way they did their business though). Say you thought blowing your nose in public was against the law, you then blew your nose in public and thought you were breaking the law. You can't be put in jail just because you thought you broke the law.

Am I completely off base here?

I have been reading way too much since Friday, very interesting subject matter and discovering some of the crazy things our government does sometimes.

True, but where many democrats are apathetic, many social conservatives would never support online poker. I guess it's safer to avoid PACs on both sides of the aisle, and focus on individual candidates.

Exactly it's so tilting watching people scream that it's Obama's fault or Bush's fault, or the Repubs or Dems. It's both their faults. They don't give a **** about poker.

The more we scream about whether red or blue screwed us over the most the more we lose.

My analysis is that social conservatives pushed this, beginning in 1997, and most everyone else let it happen. Supporting organizations that support social conservatives is supporting organizations that were/are active in blocking online poker.

Not totally true, while some dems will oppose us, the GOP has this oppositition as a plank in the party platform.

The Reid discussion bill would have happened if not for the GOP incoming chairmen for the current congress according to Bachus in a press release praising the DoJ action.

That is our primary oppositition.

obg

http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?searchinput=poker

Don't Know if this has been posted yet. Story on Fresh Air.

in before lock

lol

Unless your money wasn't in PS or FTP, but UB or AP.

Frankly, I don't give two ****s about Gold so I'm not going to listen, but I'm damn sure they would have GLADLY paid a HUGE % to do it legally.

Well, gold is most likely making **** up.