I just had a thought about the domain name seizures. Why was it done? It doesn't prevent anyone from playing on the sites. It doesn't prevent anyone new from downloading the game client. It doesn't prevent the sites from taking their money and running away or anything.

The only things that I see this accomplishing are: 1) Flexing the DOJ's muscles to the sites and 2) putting up a public and scary message to players that visit the sites. I can see how these make sense, but they hardly seem legitimate from a political standpoint. That is, if the seizures don't help the DOJ legally, don't they just bring out the "don't censor the Internet" people?

I know that .com is registered through ICANN or whatever in CA so the DOJ can easily pressure them into handing over the domain name, but I'm just not sure I know what doing that accomplished. And how are news outlets not more outraged about this aspect of the situation yet?

This is so wrong as to be laughable. The Internet is basically banned in North Korea, not that anybody there could afford a computer anyway. Ever hear of the "Great Firewall" in China? The US has (overall) the most free Internet of probably any of those countries listed, mainly due to the first amendment. Unfortuantly, poker isn't covered by the first amendment as it is not really speech (although that would be an interesting legal angle).

Yes I requested a bankwire from Bodog on the 10th and it arrived in my account on the 13th. This drama all happened on the 15th tho, so I would be curious if anyone else has gotten one later than the 15th?

After all this over and Internet poker is declared a game of skill and not chance, that is a very good idea. You actually made me think of an entire old style 70/80's arcade room at the mall. The arcade could have several different 1 player poker games of all different poker games and a few tables that when 8 people log into their accounts, the game begins (Virtual Video Poker Table. It could be an emulator one of the new feature that PS site just introduced, that you can have your "home game" on their site. All the games would then work on "time based play of hand based limit, like ten minutes or 25 hands for two quarters (or a dollar... Inflation ya know.) every game in there would be a sponsored game from different sites. Like, the "Pokerstars.com nlh 9 man sng" could be a two dollar game costing $1.50+.50 game with top player wins $13.50. All the other players are at a table online, at a table on the or phone client, or in one of the poker arcades in malls. Or the Bodog ring game $1/$2, $50 maximum buy-in and 50 cents gets you 25 hands. Like the bowling ally way. After the 25 hands, you are logged off the table. The way to buy more time is to add more money. So a total of $60 put in the machine stacks you at $50 and hand count starts counting down from 500 hands. If your stack gets lower, you can then always convert time into stack at the price of 2 cents per hand. No rake for the arcade not torn/sng games, they use the Hans at 2 cents per hand even if folded.

Man it's late, I am tired and have taken my Ambien, and you got my brain goin overtime, while my body is fallin over. But I think this is a great idea. Something for the men to do while the ladies shop. Or to interact with other players while playing poker. There could even be an employee you call the floor manager walking around trying to ensure that the games are being played properly and respectfully and that there is no 'side betting' (like in pool halls) if that is not legal in your state. Also checking IDs on the way in to verify that you are 21.

Man great business. I should delete this whole thread and do it myself. Maybe I will do it myself, BUT if someone else does this first and it succeeds for you... Don't leave me out of the monthly paychecks and the will.

Valid and verified accounts only and logged in. And just like the old arcades, the machines accept only quarters or arcade tokens of $1, $5, $0.50, and $2 denominations. When you put your bills in the "change machine" it splits up the denominations based on your "Arcade" preferences tab, because of course, you log into the change machine too. That way you can withdrawal arcade chips from your online account. You can also make deposits there too by choosing that option.

re-edited to remove reference to N. Kor, don't know where I got that, but thought it was a thread in here somewhere, doesn't matter - changed the wording to still include China - I know I've played against other players from China - Is this legit?

Not really what I had in mind as that takes the actual "play" out of the privacy of home into a business establishment - I was thinking more like the "payday loans" of online poker - in order to get around the exchange of bank check, credit card, or EFT transactions that are "illegal" - hand cash directly to Pokerstars, account gets credited, receive cash back as a withdrawal.

OMG!

You are right...mall kiosks have diplomatic immunity from international banking laws.

You have a brilliant legal mind!

well, I warned you it was stupid, but as far as I could tell the transfer of cash wasn't covered as being illegal... I'll shut up now, long weekend...

Stock Market: You are investing in a business that often provides a service to people. If the business does well, the investor does well, and the people subscribing to the services also do well. It's a win for everybody.

Insurance: I thought this was described well enough, but it's a mutually beneficial agreement. You "win" your insurance contract when your house burns down, but you'd prefer that such a thing doesn't happen. The insurance company is merely providing a service so that if something goes horribly wrong, you've got a backup plan.

Lotto/Pony Racing: Well the state government is earning money so it's obviously okay - just like the B&Ms operating inside the US are also just fine. Oh also I guess the lotto money goes to things like wildlife preservation so it's also charity (though I'm guessing it's not tax deductible).

Actual gambling: If you win, you have more money and the opponent/casino has less. If you lose, you have less money and the opponent/casino has more. Only one person wins in this agreement. Unless you count entertainment value which is certainly a valid argument.

Dear God,

It was ONLY an Apple! Get The **** Over It!

Amen

It looks like U.S. players are still able to cashout via check. Will the check be good?

I've read chatter about cashouts not being an option, so I just wanted to check here before proceeding.

It was the stupid greed of the poker sites that got everyone busted.

What I read was they some major dude doing banking for them, stiffed one of the sites for money and that site tipped off the feds that the guy was in the US and after the fed arrested him, he showed them how it all worked and turned over on all the sites to not serve jail time and BAM the greed of the poker sites trying to get someone busted, ended up busting them and guess what now the government now has all the info from banks to poker sites to players and the government can now probably go after any player that has nto paid taxes on winnings they have the whole puzzle now all they got to do is connect the dots, they can nail players now for taxes for past wins and the money in their accounts. Why would one of the poker sites be this stupid and short sighted, YEA WERE MONEY LAUNDERING BUT LETS TURN IN THE GUY WHO KNOWS ALL THE INFO. Seems the poker sites could of figured out a better way to get their money back

Stars is letting US players initiate cashout transactions by various means (echecks, paper checks, etc.) as normal. However, I haven't seen any reports yet (it's too soon) of whether or not the transactions actually get completed. The underlying question is whether or not there is any payment processor left for them to use to process such cashouts to US players.

Not sure what my situation means, but I cashed out last month 3/25 and deposited on 4/8 a paper check from stars. The money was taken from my account on 4/14 and I was assessed a fee by my bank.

Have sent stars two emails. The first reply came in a generic form that they are no longer allowing real money play with Americans. Unsatisfied with this reply (as it did not answer my question at all - I want to know when I will have money back in my stars account or checking account) I wrote another email and have yet to hear back.

I am curious how many US players were playing online? I mean how big is the online poker market in general? Of all the hobbies they could have attacked, why did they have to attack poker? In my opinion the U.S. should have been first to have online poker. But as usual we are always behind. What do the Nevada and Washington Bill do for the current state of internet poker in the U.S.?

On another news I had withdrawn an echeck on the 14th from pokerstars. It is not in my bank account. I will let everyone know if I receive it anytime this week. But I think I may have gotten screwed.

15 million americans had online poker accounts

now they dont

you know if us gov wouldn't have made internet pokerz illegal the sites wouldn't have done it? plus if the sites wouldn't have done it us players wouldn't been able to play.

sounds very legit to me how the system in the us works :P not shady at all.

Same with me.. I had a check from pokerstars bounce and I have yet to get a response from pokerstars stating when this money will be returned to my account

Has anyone in the US cashed out out from UB since this debacle started? If so by what method?

I sent UB an e-mail a little while ago asking if cashouts are possible for US players and am awaiting a reply.

Big Larry

Cashouts r suspended.

an Estimated 60k online pros in the US........more?

Yeah I'm pretty sure cashouts are suspended at all 3 sites for the time being, unfortunately.

From support at Pokerstars

"Unfortunatley we are unable to immediatley process cashout requests for US players as a result of the legal developments in the United States. We are making it a priority to work with the relevant authorities to secure the return of funds as soon as possible. We will promtly provide you with additional information as soon as it becones available."

I had an echeck withdrawal on the 14th before this happened and now am wondering what is going to happen to it.

I requested a paper check from stars on Apr. 4th, deposited it on the 8th, and had it returned with a fee on the 16th. I emailed stars cashier to get the funds back on my stars account and the email wouldn't even go through. Can anyone tell me why? This is what my email replied with:


This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.



Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:

cashier1@pokerstars.com

Message will be retried for 2 more day(s)

Technical details of temporary failure:
The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect.