The U.S. tax laws are so rigged against the amateur, recreational poker player its not even funny. It's absurd.

I believe if most players did their taxes to the letter of the law, very few would see any profit whatsoever and most would owe the IRS an unbelievable amount of taxes.

The game is rigged... but not necessarily the RNG... the tax laws are rigged against the player.

Remember Peter Eastgate won the ME and then quit the game? Why? TAX LIABILITY. It's even worse in his country than it is in ours.

These online superstars who are "backed"? They win 50% and give their backers the other 50%, but still are supposed to pay tax on 100% of the win? That alone would crush even the biggest winners in America. And yet they act like they're rolling in dough... I wonder how that is?

What a joke. No wonder the DOJ stepped in... after letting the pie grow to astronomical proportions of course before demanding their shakedown of "$2.5 billion in American currency".

Everybody wins at teh pokerz... except we the (edit: HONEST) players.

So I just sent out all my letters and started in on my phone calls. First call, as outlined in the PPA action plan was to AG Holder. My fault foor poor reading comprehension, but I thought I was going to talk to a real person, but it's just a comment line. I didn't even bother and hung up. Still going to call my state rep, but I would like to know why this phone number wasn't included in the action plan. This is the phone number I think we should be blowing up, not a public comment line that can easily be ignored.

Also found these contact #'s:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/about/offices.html#n

Southern District
Preet Bharara, USA*
One St. Andrews Plaza
New York, NY 10007
Phone: (212)637-2200 Fax: (212)637-2685

You're dreaming if you think couple months. If you're very lucky, you could hope to get your money back in a couple months. But as for playing, pray for a year or 2.

Unfortunately, time is on the DOJ's side. They'll be happy to drag this out very sloooowly.

Well, I may be dreaming, however I want to be realistic. I play online as a pseudo profession, and after a few days without access to play I am already growing frustrated and angry. I doubt so many others that rely on poker will sustain a prolonged period of abstinence from the game. So it is my belief that something will be done, and quickly, to restore the game we so know and love.

Class action lawsuit by the US players who's lives have been altered by the DoJ actions? I think not being able to access our money and the negative consequences like overdraft fees, intrest on credit cards, defaults on mortgages, etc... seems to have a leg to stand on in court.

if it was all about on line poker, maybe - but the fact that theres this silly little chare of money laundering that unfortunately changes everything - thats why i agree with those taht say cut ties from ftp and ps and use this as a vehicle to show why online poker is legit and its because of the DOJ and the current enforcement of the UIGEA that have caused the money laundering charges and caused the illegal actions to happen.

change the rules, regulate it and get on line poker legit once and for all

so when the feds raid a drug house, should the drug dealers file a class action lawsuit because they can't pay their car payment?


all players should have been making back up plans for when this day came, because it was inevitable.

Comparing poker players to drug dealers makes for a really bad analogy.

drug dealers are breaking the law, poker players are not.

not really

dealing drugs is illegal

playing poker online is illegal


and before you say "omg it's not illegal"

guess what, the sites have been seized because according to the government, it's illegal, and the government makes the laws.

poker will only become legal if and when the courts deem it's legal. as of right now, it's illegal

circular logic ftw

alright, even if its LEGAL for us to play, after the UB/AP scandals, everyone should realize how shady these pokers sites can be/are.

just blindly playing and hoping nothing changes is bad life planning. if you are now mortgage poor, it's bad financial planning.

not really, IF something is illegal, it's because or government has passed a law saying it's illegal. nothing is illegal just because. it may be immoral, and you as a person know its wrong, but unless there is a law, it's not illegal.

right now our government is taking the stand that the sites are operating illegally in the US.

anyone playing full time should have realized that this day was always a possibility.


I hope one day it's legal to play and operate online poker in the US, then we can play and not have to worry about shady sites taking our money and running.

Indeed, there is nothing to indicate that it is illegal for us to play.

Having said that, and taking into account the precarious legal situation the sites and players were in, I don't think that pouring salt in the wounds of the newly unemployed is the best course of action.

So what law makes online poker illegal?

Thehip,
You're way off base here. A class action lawsuit probably wouldn't work but playing online poker is not illegal and you're analogy w/r to drug dealers is way off.

This might be the worst analogy ever. However, playing poker is not illegal. Not paying taxes on your winnings is, but playing is legit.

For those of us who have filed their taxes for years, we should legally be able to take recourse against the DoJ for freezing our assets when WE have done nothing wrong.

i am one of those people

I"m saying the US Government is saying it's illegal, therefore it's illegal

The only way that will change is if there is some sort of court case where the Courts rule that poker isn't illegal.


Even if it's perfectly legal for you and I to play online poker, you had to realize that these sites are shady and this happening shouldn't be a surprise to anyone

How are the tax laws rigged against recreational players? I'm a recreational player and currently a student, I had very modest earnings last year and reported no tax income because my earnings came in below the standard exemption and deduction. I'm not really sure how the taxes are "rigged" against amateur players.

Also, where do you get that Eastgate retired because of tax reasons? AFAIK, he retired because he was financially independent and didn't have a passion to continue to play poker at a high level. He wanted to move onto something else. Maybe I missed the story where he said he was quitting because taxes were too high, but to me being financially independent seems to imply that he had made enough money from poker (after taxes) to have no need to play anymore.

The sites are charged with money laundering, playing by players or seeking to receive or send funds to play is not. It is illegal for banks to knowing engage in the business to transfering funds or for sites to accept the funds, according to UIGEA.

There are however exceptions; Fantasy Sports, Educational Games and Contests (the latter 2 have never been defined) in the gambling definitions are consider NOT gambling.

Also insurance, stock trading and horse racing.

obg

Correct, it may not work, but it would garner attention and get players point of view in the courts. It would likely be "tabled" until the criminal phase plays out, but, hey, you never know.

Those who are effected should have standing though, it is, afterall, their money.

obg

I'm seriously surprised to hear you saying this hip, I thought you were smarter than this. I know you've been keeping up with things, so why is it you are being no more intelligent than the news people right now? You KNOW playing is not illegal, the government has never said it is.

Obviously you have not read the indictments and are just trolling for some sort of response. Nowhere does it say that the 11 people being charged with crimes are breaking the law by playing poker or running a poker site. It does say that they are charged with money laundering, wire fraud, and conspiracy, all of which are in fact illegal because there are laws dictating that. We as players should not be punished. I don't know about you but I had a ton of money frozen during the whole neteller debacle and I am damn sure not happy about have my money frozen again for an indefinite period of time. There needs to be some legal action on the part of the players to at least get interest on the money they are keeping from us.

Has this posted anywhere here? I didn't see it:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_poker_prosecution

"At one point during Elie's 10-minute court appearance, Cowden handed a prosecutor a small box containing what he said was a 500 gigabyte hard drive.

Magistrate Judge Frank Maas said he'd never before seen a defense lawyer hand over a piece of evidence at such an early stage of court proceedings.

Outside court, Cowden said he didn't want to waste any time getting the case to trial. He also said his client would not speak about the case"




What's in the box???? And if he wants to get to trial quickly, that sounds like a good thing. Interesting.