lol

no sorry just been busy whats going on?

I mean check these articles BROKEPOOR, specifically

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20071217/192834.shtml

Now I know you are a smart, patriotic man- but doesn't this disgust you...

On the assumption that you are being serious:

FTP, Stars, AP, UB shut down in US by the FBI.
Owners indicted.
Massive number of bank accounts seized/frozen.

Online poker in the US is, for all intents and purposes, gone.

INTERPOL is not merely an extension on the FBI, and they rely on national police forces to make arrests and keep people in custody. They are definitely not in a position to arrange some "hand over" in the absence of a full extradition hearing.

online poker is CANCELLED

JP, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and appreciate your passion on this subject. All though I wish you would post a bit more,like you used too

I Do think it's too late now, the sites should have been the ones to push for litigation years ago. Maybe , before these indictments the PPA could have or should have initiated litigation if they could have, though I'm still not sure if that's something the PPA should have started. IMO,The PPAs talents were and are best spent lobbying for legislation on this matter.

Now that there are indictments I think for the long term health of the movement to pass legislation we the players and the PPA have to distance ourselves form these sites and move forward.

Aslo,Without trying to sound like a dick and i mean no disrespect to the hard working people at the PPA, I think it may be time for some changes. If the PPA is going to push for legislation in Congress then that goal might be better served without any connection to indicted sites. I feel the PPA might need to drop any board members associated with the sites and stop using sponsored pros for media and at hearings. Sure without the sites money it will hurt the PPA but i doubt they'll be donating $$$ anymore anyway. The PPA needs to stay clear of the sites now or Congress will think the players lobby just wants these "Illegal" sites back.

i didnt know this when did they do it im trying to think when i played last and havent heard anything untill now i know i probly seem like im messing ive just been busy. thanks for the bad news though.

Really interesting points, Nova. I hadn't thought along those lines at all, but on first reading, everything you say sounds right to me.

"Foothold and banning off-shore ones"

"Statement from the indictment including New Jersey customs collusion in when NJ had nothing to do with this NY indictment"

"WTO and the world bank do have an opinion on this issue and have fought the UIGEA agreement before in Antigua"

"Link to the disagreement details reguarding Antigua and Barbuda and its complaints against the US regarding the WTO's GATS and TRIPS agreements when it comes to cross-border supply of gambling and betting services - the UIGEA further cemented the US defience of the WTO regulations"

Needless to say, the World Bank (owned by the same people who run the WTO and UN) does have something to say about this, but the ability of the US to 'settle' rather than pay the $3.5B greivance further empowered the US into what happened on Friday.

Not sure if it's already been asked, but is online poker "safe" for people outside US still?

First, I'm not a lawyer and I would never attempt to even try to give them any ideas. But in the America I grew up in people are innocent until proven guilty. And in a criminal case they need to be proven guilty without any reasonable doubt. Juries tend to look very poorly on cases where they charge someone with 5 things and only 1 of them 'might' have some validity. In that case, adding doubt of any kind can be enough for acquittal on all counts.

Unfortunately this ceased to be the America I grew up in a long time ago.

Fortunately I'm capable of talking about more than one thing at a time. But personally I feel PS and FTP beating this rap would be a great thing for the future of our game. Just my opinion.

lose your BR to sven and hope he sends you a check for your 25k - for a fee of course.

On April 15, 2011, in U. S. v. Scheinberg et al. (10 Cr. 336), three online poker companies were indicted for violating U.S. laws that prohibit the acceptance of any financial instrument in connection with unlawful Internet gambling,[37][38] that is, Internet gambling that involves a "bet or wager" that is illegal under the laws of the state where the bet is made.[39] The indictment alleges that the companies used fraudulent methods to evade this law, for example, by disguising online gambling payments as purchases of merchandise, and by investing money in a local bank in return for the bank's willingness to process online poker transactions.[37] The companies argue that poker is a game of skill rather than a game of chance, and therefore, online poker is not unlawful Internet gambling.

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If poker is NOT considered as gambling (thereby not unlawful)- then PS and FT couldn't have acted fraudulently- and therefore cannot be convicted of the crimes they have been charged by the bloody Feds as its not unlawful internet gambling.

There you go Brokepoor- the criminal charges should be dropped..... as it doesn't make logically any sense. The defendants are right there.... it stinks

And you think thats right?

I actually agree with this a lot, quoting to hopefully get a response from a PPA person/ Engineer, Skall etc ...

for someone with six figures on ftp or stars, couldn't they fly out to god knows where and just meet up with an exec and have them cut you a cashiers check or something? i mean assuming the sites are not wanting to screw anyone over I mean I know that some people have the phone numbers of people high up on those sites and would be glad to get on a plane...

So I worded that incorrectly... I meant to say... The banks that DID stop serving US citizens, stopped transferring monies to these companies for the same reason Party Poker stopped allowing US customers years ago. These same banks do NOT serving Bodog and the others either. Their stoppage was voluntary. For instance, in my area, [deleted bank name] does not allow deposits to any poker site including Bodog since the UIGEA was added to that ports enactment, but [deleted bank name] does and has since UIGEA allow for deposits.

Also, the UIGEA scared some of the on-shore to voluntarily go oversees. I think it is more to get the B&M companies than it is to get the business simply in the US exclusively.

I also thought it was odd about the places they were from, being British Crown Dependancies and Antigua, but I linked to that just earlier. I know that INTERPOL in not an extention of the FBI, but they are also not regulated by any one country. They are independant inter-continental police and if they arrest the people themselves instead of using local police to do the arrests, they can do it without extradition.

Thanks, Its something that I've been thinking about for some time now.

loosing the Big sites in the US is terrible, I wish it didn't happen but now that it has happened it could free us a little on the legislative front.

I read every thread and post in this forum everyday and certain things became clear too me. Its clear that with every proposed bill (state and federal) I believe the PPA had to walk a fine line with their player base.

As long as US players could play on PS/FT and yes AP/UB many players first thought was how will this bill affect our ability to play on current sites. It was difficult to rally support from the player base for any bill if these sites, and maybe rightfully so, would be banned or would have difficulty receiving a license. The PPA had to fight for legislation that would include the current sites (I'm sure it was difficult) or at least language that wouldn't outright ban them. Things like blackouts,transition periods,international play,etc became a sticking for players and many preferred the status quo rather then risk losing the current sites with legislation.

Now that the sites are gone players and the PPA can unite and fight for a good bill without worrying if/how it will effect the current site....And ,rightly or wrongly, lawmakers wont see us as just pushing regulation of sites that many lawmakers,some media and some of the general public saw as "illegal" operators.

hello all u online gamblers. i just signed up with 2plus2 and this is my 1st post. this seems to be the spot to go to get good information or atleast join the discussion. i am definitely concerned about the whole situation as i have been a pretty consistent player on ps and tilt for about 2 years. i have a mediocre roll on tilt and a pretty significant roll on stars and i have no idea whats going to happen with my money. i was never really too concerned as i just always thought the funds were safe. anyways i had a few questions and was hoping to get some answers. what happened when the UIGEA first passed and then stopped US players from playing on party poker? Was there a freezeout period were players were unable to get their money off? Did the us players eventually get the money? any insight would be appreciated as i am just trying to get a comparison of the two events. thanks

I didn't know INTERPOL had their own officers on the street arresting people - what self-respecting national government gives them jurisdiction to do that? I thought INTERPOL co-ordinated police forces across national borders.

Are you saying INTERPOL can just go and send their own people into, say, the Republic of Ireland, pick up whoever the DOJ tells them to on allegations that may not be criminal under Irish law, then pack them onto a plane and fly them into the United States without the detainees having had the opportunity to see an Irish judge? Can you name an example of INTERPOL doing that sort of thing in some other case?

Because if that is true I find that very, very, very scary.

.

Yes. You can goto the European sites for PS and FT here: www.pokerstars.eu and www.fulltiltpoker.co.uk

When you log into the client you will get a message telling you that cash games, tourneys, etc are all running as normal for non US players and funds are safe.

Also that traffic doesn't seem too badly affected either, 150k players online on PS before. Think FT was more badly affected, as it only had around 40k.

What, the hypocracy of the government's actions or Bodog and other sites being able to operate?

First off, if I thought it was illegal, I would follow the law and go down to Harrah's Chester, the Sugar House, or Atlantic City and not fund or play internet poker.

If I thought the hypocracy of what the government has done was right, I wouldn't expose the facts about this the way I have tried to do.

I have not given my personal feelings about their actions, but I will since you asked. I am very outraged that the govenment has taken the actions they have and the way they have done it. My heart dropped in my chest when I heard the news. That shock turned to informing myself better about what was going on. Then in turn the outrage took over. I signed 4 online pettitions on Friday and wrote to my Reps, Senators, state and federal, local elected officials, President Obama, and governor. I was up till 7AM on Saturday morning reading and listening to more information and opinion on the issue and the surrounding issues on this.

No, I don't think this is right. And I do not appreciate the feds (not to be confused with the FED, lol) actions on this entire issue since it started. They treat it like organized crime and not a business that so many people rely on for a living and pros and numerous televised events have come to rely on the income from these sites. They gave no clear warning that they were doing this on this day and noone was able to prepare for the gov't shutdown. Its like the day Enron went down, except this time it was done by own government against these people, rather than the company execs straight out stealing it. As a matter of fact, inocent until proven guilty means that they make the charge and then shut down the sites. This is like dropping a bomb on a house and then charging the dead with not answering the door. (Oh wait we already have precident for that. grrrrr MOVE - Waco)

Are cashouts going through as normal on the sites that haven't been targeted?