Just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't, which is what people are arguing

This has nothing to do with it being on the internet...or your assertion that the internet is not real life.

Okay so I came to this thread a bit late but I was already following it, and quite the read it was. Good job by jalex and shame on the scammers. RoSeeker, I also think you should just shut up and stop trying to justify what you did or even try to put it in perspective and just bow your head in shame. And +1 for a 'cheating' clause in these kind of future prop bets.

Jesus, do you not get it or something -

Loctus said - "If the equivalent of this was to happen in real life you would be in PRISON."
Gigafish said "This IS real life."
I agreed with Loctus and said "No, its the internet."

The point Loctus was making and that I concurred with is that if you were caught trying to steal 10K in real life you would be looking at a jail term. But here in the internet poker world, you get caught trying to steal 10K and there is zero chance you will be looking at jail. Got it now?

I don't think making Roseeker chose between his moral integrity and money is blackmail. Roseeker is trying explain himself and seeking redemption of some kind. That's a lot to ask considering his past actions. His bull**** post of moral relativism (I didn't pay too much attention to it because either way it is not an appropriate post at this time) demonstrates that he has not really changed at all and simply regrets being caught.

What idiot has the audacity to assign relative values to guilt in your situation. Imo if a situation like this ever arose again no doubt you would learn from your mistakes, in that you better evaluate your method to cheating and its cost/benefit. If you voluntarily chose something similar to what xperu or burning money suggested, where you had to chose between obvious monetary loss (the only thing we can be sure you value) and your morals, it would help at showing some sign of rehabilitation.

The fact that you are SEEKING redemption means the community can ask of something from you, and I don't think that's unfair. What you did here shocked me because you seemed like s stand up guy who was really committed to helping others, so you giving back to the poker community (not involving money) shows no real rehabilitation, as you were kind of doing that before the scam. Money is the only thing we know you really value, so imo step up or GTFO.

Jesus, do you not get it or something -

You said 'No' to his assertion that this is real life. Ergo, the internet is not real life.

This is obviously not the case. If it were, then no cases of fraud committed over the internet would have ever gone to court. Since this is obviously false, then clearly the internet IS real life...and you saying 'No' to him was incorrect.

So, we can rule out that the reason this doesn't go to court is because the 'internet isn't real life' and try and figure out what the real reason is. I'm sure most of us know, but I'll let you figure it out for yourself. You'll learn more that way.

Can i get some cliffs please?

stevedapimp got prosecuted im pretty sure

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TBH most of this discussion is pretty much BS. There is nothing the guys can actually say or do to reverse the situation. Unfortunately there is no single jesture/action that can be taken that suddenly absolves people of a prior mistake. Gary and Seeker made a mistake. It was a pretty big mistake - but its done now and giving to charity/having your name put on a website will not really change **** - especially if it is forced. Like cmon - I saw someone mention an idea about Gary having to do 250k hands and giving winnings to charity etc. At the end of the day - will that really change anyones true perception of him? Would any of you just suddenly do a prop bet with him again just because he did some stupid 250k hand thing?

TBH all the two guys can do is apologise and change themselves for the better. Almost everyone deserves a second chance if they change their ways.

Im probably gonna get some **** for this - but I really think that a small part of the blame here has to go to the bettors. Seriously, you are putting up so much money against a guy you basically have no idea about. I guarantee you that this scam could of been set up in a much more subtle and smarter way which would of fooled everyone. At the end of the day - you people are just stupid and naive if you think everyone in the world is honest and has a halo over their heads. At the end of the day - we all have to own the results of our decision, and IMO doing this sort of prop bet against a guy you dont know is ****ing ******ed.

i dont think roseeker/gary should be even allowed the option to pay to prevent a site going up. gary hasnt bothered to show up in this thread again besides his half-assed apology (probably for the better), and roseeker has just given us his pathetic attempt at rationalizing his actions. they clearly show not some extent of "moral relativism" (rofl) but actual moral failings.

it would be a long time before anyone should trust them on even the most mundane of bets.

the poker community operates on trust, from bets and transfers ranging from a dollar to tens of thousands of dollars. if i cant trust someone with a $5 bet because they might say "oh the money doesnt mean that much to him", then i certainly cant trust them overall.

out their names and their faces, nothing else. the community has to be warned about scumbags like these.

lmao the person who tried to drop the brick on the other dude is more evil AND would get in more trouble... wtf are you even trying to argue here

You should stop ending your posts with this retort when it's clear you are the one who isn't 'getting it.'

More like "because law enforcement does not care about poker players".

Exhibit A: Kevin Mitnick -- a computer hacker who broke the law for ego reasons rather than for monetary gain. It pissed off some corporations (these people matter to the establishment) so he goes to prison. Mitnick is at worse a cyber-vandal.

Exhibit B: Russ Hamilton (and his mystery band of co-conspirators) steals millions of dollars (sole motivation, monetary gain) but the wronged parties are poker players who apparently don't matter so FFFF UUUU, we'll spend our time trying to seize player withdrawal monies instead.

Your underlying thesis (that law enforcement doesn't give a **** about this crime) is clearly correct.

Can we get this thread back on track, RoSeeker bashing..

I think Roseeker has been looking for the easy way out of any situation, probably thinks he's smart and just has to think of way to scheme it. Hopefully this experience and its consequences will teach him a thing or two about that mentality.

It doesn't seem like he has really taken account of the reality of the situation because he's in this thread pleading his case about how he doesn't deserve to be punished severely. When his punishment is going to be rather light all things considered.

we really need some pictures of the perps so photoshopping can ensue.

If that is what he meant, I completely agree. However, that is very, very far removed from what he was saying.

well spoken, sir +1

I'm a big enough boy to take criticism like this from a cheater in his ostensible "apology post":

Starazz is still an annoying ******, but that’s rather unrelated.

It's just interesting that RoSeeker would try to foster some sense of "us" (meaning RoSeeker and the poker community) vs. "him" (me) in a post meant to show contrition.

Little clues like this sprinkled throughout RoSeeker's posts are what people are noticing when they don't believe RoSeeker has rehabilitated much at all.

Additionally, in a recent post RoSeeker said that his account is locked. Yet I found evidence at officialpokerrankings.com that RoSeeker played in a Pokerstars tournament 2 days ago:

Playing at PokerStars RoSeeker tournament results


GMT+00:00

Full Tilt Poker
Order by Period


Date Tournament Game Buy in Entries Rank Prize
31 Mar 10 No Limit Hold'em HENL $1.10 45 8 $0

So RoSeeker might have the last laugh after all (no pokerstars account ban, not even a lock, and maybe even no public outing or bannage on 2+2). Not a bad cheater's freeroll if that's the outcome, which I have a feeling it won't be.

xPeru won't get back to me, maybe you'll make a bet with me that stars closes his account? Since you thought his nonsense was well spoken.

RoSeeker, you would prove to me and probably everyone else that you have indeed changed and learned if you start up a website and leave it up for 10 years that is [your full name]isacheater.[suffix] and give your full name, picture, and city of residence along with a full accounting of your cheating as discovered in this thread. Then as the years go by, you can update it with posts showing how you have rehabilitated your trustworthiness and others can testify to it, as well. That way, people can be the judge and you will prove you have nothing to hide.

Or you can leave it up to other people to set up the website how they see fit without any opportunity for you to show rehabilitation along the way. I mean, people are talking about blackmailing you. This is a much more preferable alternative to that nastiness, which I do not condone but you never can tell what people will do nowadays.

On behalf of the entire non-cheating poker community, I would like to thank you for your ethics education. We really were lacking in that department, and needed a boost on that from someone as enlightened as you.

It's hilarious how starazz's ideas are all ******ed without exception.

RO, Moral Relativism is a position, with several other well respected ethical views having none of that crap (Kantian ethic for example)

but also lol at using Academic Ethical Theories with big words to justify something which we all know intuitively is plain wrong

Absolutely incredible investigation work on behalf of Jalex and others. "I'm speechless; I'm without speech." Elaine in Seinfeld

I've followed most of the prop bets on 2+2 and bet in I believe 5 of them. I never understood why people every agreed to be a judge. I admire the hard work that went into finding the truth to what happened here. The best reason for them to do so is to help preserve the integrity of the game and that's a reason worth working so hard for. Kudos to the detectives.