Do people think wonderboy's punches are harder than Conor? Genuinely curious.

what makes you think conor works harder or out trains his opponents? is it the fact that he posts more sweaty selfies on instagram?

(to be clear, it may or may not be true, i just don't think any of us is in a good position to judge)

He works very hard but his opponents do as well. I think he has an intelligence and natural talent that his opponents doubt because of his antics.

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Woops, I meant "Nate"...of course...fwiw...

hahahaha

This was so, so good. Double champ does what the **** he wants

John Kavanagh said that Diaz is the #2 fighter at 155 and Holloway #2 at 145. Said that Khabib and Tony Ferguson would be interesting to be analyzed for a fight with Conor, but they are too easily hit.

#IrishEdmund can eat a dick

Well Diaz beat Conor and khabib and ferg have not. Pretty lolobv.

Hmmm. Woodley was able to land big shots against Thompson. That is literally true. He was able to land *two* big shots from a standing position (plus maybe half a dozen other decent ones scattered in there).

He better not wait 17:30 before he tees off next time though. And if you're TW's people I think you have cause for apprehension from a McGregor matchup.

Tyron seems like a really nice guy. He also seems like a really sensitive guy though. It's very clear that not getting champion caliber love from anonymous strangers really bothers him*. Giving Conor months to get inside his head sounds dangerous.

"He's nootin' but a big overhand right; he's gonna overcommit to the big right, I'm gonna slip it and bang the left, and he's gonna wake up without his belt just like they all do."

All Conor has to do is say something like that and Woodley could struggle to pull the trigger all night.


*Apologies to Tyron, but he "earned" his title shot by running his winning streak to two with an unconvincing split-decision victory over a fat Kelvin Gastelum, who had the flu and botched the weight cut by nine pounds. The fight was marred by eye pokes, low blows, and a crowd that was booing before the end of the first round. What hurt him the most though was turning down fights to protect what was already a pretty "soft" title shot while Maia and Wonderboy were piling up wins and Lawler was putting on fight of the year candidates with Rory (who Tyron laid an egg against) and Condit. Now he's positioned as the champ the fans don't love, and his actions to crawl out of it are only wrapping him up tighter.

McGOAT apparently wants to take a paternity leave in preparation for his son who is due in May. I don't see how Dana can let him keep both belts for that long. He should vacate the FW belt, let Khabib fight Ferguson for #1 LW contender, then fight/beat the winner, setting up Diaz-McGOAT III

Conventional wisdom is that someone with above average pop at one weight will see a dropoff if he jumps up a division. And sure, some guys do nothing but put some baby fat back on or add some non-functional muscle in the weight room. But this is a terrible generalization that you do not want to be running to the bookies with.

Two examples to consider -- Rumble Johnson and Donald Cerrone. Cerrone routinely couldn't handle body shots from average sized 155-ers. Here he is now at 170 getting major bang for his buck out of those fifteen extra pounds. It's exactly what you hope for when you move up -- that you had untapped potential in terms of movement and explosiveness (not just in the weight room). Donald moves just as effectively, and that weight is pure benefit in terms of striking and grappling power. I thought he was going to beat the **** out of Robbie Lawler and I think he's gonna beat the **** out of Matt Brown even worse. (As for Rumble....he's the poster child, not much new to add that hasn't already been said.)

It's worth noting that what Cerrone and Johnson have in common is a nice tall frame. I think a smart tactic when gambling on MMA in general, and especially when involving a divisional switch, is to wait and see what the weigh in photos look like. I bet a lot of the people predicting that Alvarez would work Conor over were picturing a thicker Eddie grinding down an up-jumped featherweight against the fence. But come fight week observers who didn't know better would have pegged Eddie as the 145-er. Not only is Conor a tall FW, but he has a frame that can effectively hold ten more pounds of highly functional muscle. He got a nice boost in power--both as a puncher and as a grappler--from those extra ten pounds.

There are real questions as to whether the benefit of those fifteen pounds Conor adds to move from LW to WW is at all akin to the boost that pounds 146 to 155 bought him. Certainly there are diminishing returns. That legendary Diaz durability makes it nigh impossible to judge his power though. Jury is out on his power relative to Wonderboy IMO.

Well put. Exactly my thoughts. I would add that Conor's power comes from speed in more of a pure boxing sense than that of the guys with big overhands, so as long as he isn't slowed down too much he should retain at least the power he has exhibited at 45 and 55 and IMO that is enough for 70.

Just do interim belts. If the only reason a belt is on the line is that the champ is otherwise indisposed its effectively an interim title anyway. Cormier is interim LHW champ for example, and will be for me until he beats Jones (I don't care what his belt says).

Most of this logic is sound but I have a couple of notes on Conor and Cowboy you may have not considered. Cowboy was hurt by the IV ban more than anyone. He is missing a large portion of his intestines due to a motorcycle accident so he can't properly rehydrate orally. That's why he looked so bad vs RDA. Coach Kav claimed Conor is lighter 2 weeks out from his fights now than he was when he was fighting 145 due to his new cardio routine. This would lead one to believe he isn't any bigger in the ring at '55 than he was at '45 he just cuts less water weight.

Conor really should be boxing instead of fighting MMA lol. He has no BJJ, no wrestling, doesn't even throw a lot of kicks. But he is by far the best boxer in the UFC.

I want to laugh at you because of just how bad Conor's boxing is (as opposed to MMA striking, which is different in a lot of ways) but then I remeber how genuinely awful at boxing most MMAists are and you may be right for the wrong reasons here.

MMA boxing and regular boxing aren't even close. Not only do you have defend against takedowns and kicks in MMA and you can't just wrap your arms around your opponent to get separated.

I have never seen him box, have you?

Yea I know its different, I get it. I dont think he is going to beat Mayweather if they fight but the timing, precision and power he's been showing with his hands could make him a good boxer imo.
Plus he is the one that has to be worried about takedowns, not his opponents.

Now please stop making me talk Conor up, I hate him remember?

I actually think Conor could be a very dangerous boxer. Anytime you have that type of range, power, speed, and timing you are going to be amazing. Conor's problem would probably be his cardio, footwork, and defense. I'm not one of those people who thinks Conor has 0 chance vs Mayweather. I think if he touches him he could really hurt him but I think Mayweather defense is on a whole nother level. His chances of beating Mayweather go up dramatically the amount of time he focuses on traditional boxing, but that seems like somewhat of a waste of time for a one of. What I really think they should do is make it a kickboxing boxing match and even the playing field but that will never happen.

I've seen him spar in vidoes, but obviously I've never watched him in the gym. The best way to describe his sparring is "sloppy". My guess is that his training in other disciplines has caused his natural instincts and reflexes to do things that expose him in a boxing ring.

He's also used to fighting with much lighter gloves that change both defense and offense.

With the exception of the times he's clearly looking to pull or pivot and counter (he pulls considerably more), he tends to keep his lead hand entirely too far in front of him and his foot movement when facing pressure is really poor. He tries to manipulate opponents with that lead hand instead of bringing it back for defense and he eats easy hooks because of it.

He keeps his hands low in general (which in MMA is useful for TDD but in boxing makes you a target) and relies on his speed, which is great but hardly spectacular, to land as opposed to putting his body in the right position. His defense is almost entirely trunk movement which is going to get him smashed and he throws odd punches (i.e. he'll lead with a rear hand uppercut which is just not a punch that has success against pros) occasionally which looks amateurish.

Boxing is different than MMA striking. It's got some useful cross-over, but the time it takes to develop it as a skill is the same as the time it takes to be an elite BJJ practitioner or Kick boxer. Conor has devoted him time to other things, and it shows, but if he ever put on 8 oz. gloves he'd be a dog to any top 50 boxer at 147.

His main attributes are physical (he's length and hand speed) but his technique seems pretty far behind.

Here's a decent little clip to illustrate my point:



Jump to about 37 seconds to see an example of his "defense". Against a pro who's trying to hurt him, he's a serious trouble there.

The clip in the ring vs the boxer using head movement was interesting. You don't see mma guys moving that low and sideways to stay off the centerline and away from the straight left. If that was MMA that guy would be taken down or eat a flying knee/head kick fast.

LET'S HEAR YOUR DIVISIONAL RANKINGS.

Not based on who deserves what. Based on who comes out alive if we lock them in a cage. For simplicity I will be doing UFC only but feel free.

FEATHERWEIGHT

1. Notorious
2. Jose Aldo
3. Max Holloway
4. Frankie Edgar
5. Chad Mendes
6. Ricardo Lamas
7. Cub Swanson
8. Anthony Pettis
9. Jeremy Stephens
10. Korean Superboy

Divisional Narrative

Featherweight has a great range of Keepers of the Gate. Stephens, Swanson and Lamas hold the keys to the top five. Bermudez, Oliveira, Barao? You shall not pass. Holloway? Come on down son. We'll see how Superboy Choi does next.