It is true that recs believe in lucky cards but the same hold true for certain 'spots' and other things, fish don't play randomly or randomly click buttons they develop tendencies were they aren't even aware off and you can easily exploit these tendencies with use of the hud.

You are probably a high stakes player or don't play often with fish but at small stakes it is very easy to generate a lot of hands with a fish. Most fish play for days/weeks and when they are done with their little period they come back from time to time.

Also that mood and table dynamics has a lot influence on the fish i don't agree with at all. A tight passive fishy player who never bluffs on the river on Monday isn't suddenly going to start bluffing on the river on Tuesday because of w/e reason.

I'd say hud is very effective instrument versus a fish. For example, seeing a high river aggression with a passive fish is very telling, donkbet in combination fold to c-bet(flop, turn) easily shows up and a ton of other stats are easily to use vs fish were basically nobody needs a lot of brainpower for.

I'm under the impression(and i thought i learned that from poker all these years) that humans tend to get into patterns, the same holds true for fish and they aren't even aware unlike a regular, a hud is perfect vs a fish because of that.

TR7 is lookin at this prolly from a pure bumhunt angle. In ms reg tables u see an unkown, u look him up at rus ptr, u see all the big leaks in an instant at that is enough, the fish will go broke soon and no more data is needed in the long run. But there is a different angle, such zoom games. There are so many regfish or tight fish and rb pros that play often with not so obvious leaks which u need to exploit in order to max ur ev. Without huds the winrates would go to ****, player pools would shrink and no rake will be generated.

I'm going to develop the most advanced color coding system the world has ever seen

Break even Tim Stone pwned by TR7 there

[ ] breakeven
[ ] pwned
[x] Timstone

using hyperbole to get your message across,wp champ.
reg/rec ratio will be better if regs can't multi table as much, it's simple logic that can't be refuted by your nonsense ramblings.

so now, not only we have champion of nano stakes, but a baller stake crusher of bovada chiming in the thread.
oh and wait, i thought bovada was the softest site in existence...

From reading this thread and the recent Stars thread, it looks like most of the people who are unhappy with the changes are mad that they joined the party 10 years late..

Lol at TR7 pwning anyone. Guy is a 20 year old self obsessed doucebag who doesn't want to get a job and thinks poker owes him a living. Nice career plan. Going to be fun watching him cry all the way to a McDonalds uniform

I've seen you post this before and you're wrong.

Even in the 500Zoom games many, if not most regs, have easy to identify exploitable fold frequencies and range constructions that are obvious with a good HUD.

Sure, no one is folding BB v SB or Btn steal 75% or check/folding after missing a cbet 85%. If that is the type of easy first move exploitability you're looking for you're not looking deep enough.

Many regs have fixed their first move type exploitabilty but created combo move exploitability. Their higher defense frequencies vs the first move often leave their follow up ranges too weak and exploitable. In many cases they are correct to do so because most regs aren't properly exploiting those spots but to say a HUD isn't useful picking apart the game of another reg is ridiculous.

More Tim Stone ownage

One of the problems here is that it becomes less 'poker' and more statistical analytics, and it's just too much for a casual player to have any reasonable chance to win. Might as well rename online poker at this point since it has more to do with data analyzation than poker.

People seem to think fish will come forever - they have to win once in a while to get hooked and come back for more. If the regs want the status quo and more of the same in terms of the limited amount of potential players in the pool, then HUD's for all. If they want some fish and more money to be won, then they should be against HUD's.

Why would a casual player come back after 3 or 4 sessions of being unfairly abused by half a table of HUD-using regs? It would be one thing if it was simply a bad player losing because of bad poker decisions, being defeated by someone making better poker decisions. Instead, the game is now custom built for the multi-tabler who doesn't even contemplate making poker moves.

It's also not fair to have someone's historical patterns discernible before they ever even play a hand at that table. At least on a site like Bovada, the stats from the HUD are limited to that session. I mind that less, but it's still debatable with me whether or not that is fair.

I guess technically* your point is correct, but it accomplishes nothing because there still will very rarely be a game with more than 1 fish in it. One could also argue that regs playing less tables will be a lot more picky about the tables they do play, meaning sniping the fish could get worse.

Actually I like the idea of no HUDS, I have never been a mass table guy and would contend that HUDS and stars SNE program have been the single biggest online poker economy destroying agent there has been (besides the US government prob).

But anyone who is high fiving over the reg/fish ratio improving because of this move is clueless to what actually goes on at midstakes +.

yeah, I'm sure the average nl 100 reg doesn't have 10 leaks you can exploit and they all play GTO.
nl 100 confirmed unbeatable

[ ] Timstone
[x] TimStone
[x] Still posts like a 16 year old from 2008

about time someone said it

Absolutely correct. But thats gladly gonna be a thing of teh past without notecaddy badges. Yet still i think a hud is significantly moar valuable vs a fish and id assume decent amount of people would agree with me.

I think there was some news that it will not be allowed, by stars i think. Not sure what else u had in mind. Colors are according to percentage, except in my case as i use them just to spot some stat faster. Color coding players, u have all the colors to pick from, or at stars u have, but they have a lot more players, so if they go no hud, it takes a long time, plus many players will have or get their stats from the past. Some preparations could also be done, but stars already took their line.

Will now just have to see what happens elsewhere. But no simple hud even is not my idea of the best solution, as i am being more in favor of table max limitations and for anything above too complex huds, and stars has done some way okay. Party having no hud at all allowed, I dont think that will be good for me, but will need to see how it goes for others to be sure.

this needs to stop being said. There is nothing in a HUD that is giving any directions on how to play, period.

Just curious, why dont you use a HUD? If they basically tell you what to do you should be making hundreds of thousands a year from poker, with your dream machine, right?

So for everyone who doesnt actually understand what a HUD does, which is alot apparently, this is what it is like; Lets say you are not a mechanical engineer but are given an evaluation of a mechanical engineering student after they have performed a series of tests. The tests and scores are as follows:

Absolute Convergence - 29
Core - 72
Functional Operations - 99
Fundamental Theorem - 41
Curve Sketching - 11

Would you then know exactly how skilled this mechanical engineer is? Would you automatically be able to outperform them? Do you know what all these terms mean and how to apply them now?

Most certainly the answer is no to everyone of these questions. The same applies to a HUD in poker. Unless you are already a fundamentally sound, advanced player, a HUD will be virtually useless to you. Im sure though most people (mainly recs and or fish) have some sort of understanding of this though and is why they dont use one.

I'm a big lurker on these forums, have been for years. I actually made an account today just to say how wrong people happy about this change are.

If you're happy about this change, you're obviously completely oblivious to the hundreds of opportunities PartyPoker now have to fleece players of their money, without their knowledge.

I mean I'm not saying poker sites aren't able to do that already, I'm just saying it will be a million times easier and go completely unnoticed.

Not to mention, what stops darker software developers from creating something that captures images on the screen, on a remote computer? That's undetectable.

Sorry, but this change is actually hilarious.

All the statistics provided by a HUD point the user to a specific course of action. HUDS also provide far more information than any human brain could possibly remember. You're not playing a game based on your own merits.

Re: using a HUD I don't want to get involved in a technology battle, I simply want to play poker.

I'm also not sure why 'pros' are so keen to keep them? The end game will be everyone playing with a HUD and edges being tiny for everyone and no-one beating the rake. If Pokerstars builds a HUD and leakbuster into the client for all players will you be happy, I mean after all a HUD provides no assistance?

Sure let everyone use one, build it into the client. That would be great. I wish people didn't have to buy it. Like it's been said a million times having a HUD does not make you a winning player, not even close. Hell I even think it would make your average player worse by relying on the stats too much and applying them incorrectly.

It's hard to get this point through to you or anyone who doesn't actually understand how they work. How you think they work is completely false.

You also must have completely ignored the comparison I gave of how they work. Let's go over an actual one. What information does a fold to flop cbet - 61 give you? How do you counter this stat on any random flop? Is 61% too high, too low, just right? Do you now Cbet 100 percent of your hands bc omg he folds 61%? What sizing do you use? Is his range the same from every position so it doesn't matter if he opened utg or on the button?

It's fairly hilarious that you continue to say there's real time decision making going on or anything that basically points out what to do. And your arguments that you don't want to get into a technology war is ridiculous. If HUDs instantly made decisions for you and turned you into a winner you'd be laughing all the way to the bank with your millions. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that and you know it.

They do give the already extremely good player a bit more information and edge but provide the already loosing players with basically nothing since these players will not know how to apply basically any of the info. This is unarguable, and the plain truth.

Like I said give them to everyone. I wouldn't care. Hell you can take them away too and it won't make a huge difference. The good regs are still going to crush, it's basically as simple as that. HUDs add very very little to an overall win rate, they are certainly not a built in 2 or 3 bb/100, or the reason why fish are fish.

huds don't do anything and don't hurt the games at all- but don't take them away from us!

party poker statement........ "Players wishing to wait for a cash game will join the room-wide waiting list and be randomly seated when a seat that matches their preference becomes available"

thats so funny, next money making software available soon!

I think the problem is that without a HUD you don't have the fold to CB of 61% to begin with. If you've been watching all the hands at the table you might think he folds too often but if you haven't been watching the table at all, due to multi-tabling, then you would have nothing to base you're decision on and the HUD is giving you info which you have no right to.

Also, fold to 61% CB is just the beginning. You can get the HUD to pop up telling you what kind of flops he has folded to make the 61% and what kind of flops he continues on. Also, did he fold to the double barrel, did he ever check raise any of the 39%, what amounts bet previously did he fold to, what amounts did he not fold to and on and on and on. You could never remember all this information on your own but here it is all presented right in front of you without you having to use any of your brain to get it.