Some idealists in this thread really need a reality check. Huds or no huds, they will get bummed one way or another, if u dont want to lose then become a better poker player its as simple as that. U simply cannot nullify online databases, game solving software etc by trying to ban a few 3rd party tools. 3rd party tools which got banned in stars are recreating their software as we speak to become legit again. The only way to protect fish is to make everything anonymous, but this will not happen for alot of reasons on any major sites (read:stars).

@tiltshove1
You're spot on.

smaller sites are not 'innovative', they have to react to 'survive'. idk if you guys remember when party changed the vip program, closed the high stakes and made other drastic changes. this wasn't because they had a vision of a fair game, but problems with some table formats/players which costs them too much money. same for all the other sites, who switched more or less to the recreational player model. if we still had a boom, no one would care about recs, we would still have massive RB deals and rooms would fight to get the sickest grinders on their team roster.

so i don't see any reason why stars should be bold/innovative, if they can simply wait until all the other rooms have to make drastic changes, before they do. besides that, stars is going recreational on a very steady pace. all the challenges, shootouts or stuff like the 100k overlay 1cent tournament, have pretty much recreational player model written all over. not to mention how much money&effort they put into V7 which has some major and important rec features (e.g. easy seat)

this is only 1 side of the answer, We make all your chips in mtt from the blinded players who have no clue that we track every bet they make and how they play. How people can actually say that HUDs are not the problem are delusional. This is a game with cards and should be our own decisions when to perform actions, not some machine that digs down into every detail and guides you into it.

^ As I said before, sample size is key. You need several hundred hands (at the very minimum) to use hud effectively for anything other than checking VPIP/PFR and distinguishing a 32/18 weaker player from a 80/5 megawhale (which isn't hard without a hud either). Getting that sort of sample against recreational players (that tend to play less frequently and jump between formats/stakes much more than regs do) is very hard, especially in MTTs that you talk about.

I can assure you, regs exploit recs by quickly assigning them the "fishy" label when they saw limping/min3betting/whatever and then adjusting accordingly to population tendencies (and making notes of more player-specific plays), not by trying to make sense of the turn check/raise stat on a particular board texture having a 150 hand sample.

You're confusing a database with a HUD.

Databases are used to study your game, and others, away from the table. HUDs present info at the table that the human mind would be incapable of recalling.

I actually can't believe this conversation is still going on.*

*I mean, I can, but hasn't everyone argued enough about it and isn't it clear that nobody cares about your opinion on either side of the discussion?

<3

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2015/1...licy-22920.htm
Whats up with this? 1 Oct?

Gold

If HUDS only facilitate the game against regs, and this allows more tables to be played by individual regs, then it casts their fishing net wider, gears up the number of seats they fill, and lets them trawl up more cash from fish.

The zero-sum arms race among regs is only there to facilitate fishing. It lowers bb/100s and increases hourly disparities, which makes the games suck.

I dont agree that nobody cares. 2+2 is the biggest poker forum with some pretty clever and knowledgeable people on poker and its community. They would be stupid not come on here and read what people say. Yes a lot of the times they dont agree or they do their own thing that their researches told them to.. but Im pretty sure they consider it.

news is based on an update in an ongoing thread in the internet poker sub forum

This thread is the epitome of why online poker has become so broken.

Some people literally began to profit and EXPLOIT both the game and it's players over time. So much so, they have literally gained a sense of entitlement and belonging in doing so (software devs/regs). Online poker is broken in large part because of these people.

They aren't great scam busters or colluder catching heros. They are actually the problem. Its their tools and the formation of groups from them (clans/cartels etc) that have destroyed the games well-being in rather short-order. These software DEVs, who act like they are so cutting edge (yet seemingly have put all their eggs in one online poker sector) have helped the speed in which the game evened out significantly.

On another point, I don't think a lot of you all get how these Statistics minded, knowing how to interpret a bunch of data on a screen to make a more 'accurate' or 'comfortable' decision types are. They will be brought back to earth when stripped of these comfortable tools.

It is delusional to think that when stripped of these HUGE edge gaining tools these same players will actually show better results and win rates. You couldnt be more wrong, what you will find happen is, they will start winning much more closer to their actual real ability (in poker). And it will be less of a win rate clearly not more, while playing less tables too. Closer to their real ability.

Check your egos at the door because a lot of you all in this thread are delusional thinking these people will win at a higher rate without them tools. You all have been brought back to reality and it was looong overdue in online poker.

Great job Party/Stars/NJ DGE was so looong overdue!

Totally agree here, edge of coming from using HUD's should not be understimated. Sometimes when watching a training video, i actually thought it was unnatural, to be able to make ALL decisions from HUD statistics, almost to the pathetic. Its not even real poker, i feel at times.
Take it away, see what is left of your actual skills, that goes for me too.
Great effort, Party Poker, at least your trying to do something for the good of online poker.Will be playing there in near future for sure, you can take my HUD , party.Preferred sites where HUDs are not allowed or dont work anyway.Good job!

Yes but that is exactly why, imo, PS won't do this. They would rather have everyone at 0 bb / 100 than a few players with 15bb/100 and the 0bb/100 player become -5-10bb/100

well said m8

Final nail in the coffin. What was once the biggest and most active site online is a shadow of it's former self. Game Over GG

Excellent work Party poker, this makes a much more enjoyable poker enviroment

Hopefully ipoker and stars can follow suit soon

when are mods going to change the title. HUD's ARE NOT BANNED. it is impossible to ban them hence why party nor anyone else will even bother. The only thing party is doing wrt to huds is taking away the option to store the HH's on your hard drive like many sites currently do.

They are quite clearly banned. That is the stated intention.

Whether people respect the ban is a totally different matter.

this nailed it completely. REPENT VARIANCE IS COMING!!!!

Ask the guys at Blockbuster, Kodak or Alta Vista and to some extent even Microsoft, if they would do things different if they had another chance.

Stars has such a lock on the market that 'innovate or die' might not apply to them right now, but that's certainly not a good thing for the consumers. Having a market leader that keeps making big moves instead of baby steps usually helps pushing the whole market in the right direction.

Sorry but the idea of Party having 'Researchers' has to be mocked, it was either this or a picutre of monkeys in suits having a meeting....on second thoughts who doesn't want to see that?

actually no. both in the original statement and later confirmations by the party rep, huds are no longer SUPPORTED hem/pt4/huds etc are able to be run with party open, not bannable just simply not supported with a provided downloadable HH.