no i can use a hud- i just think they're terrible for the games.
sorry you're too dense and self absorbed to realize that.

your logic is pretty terrible.just because i can use something doesn't mean I have to think it's a good idea to have it or good for poker.

I really dont understand why you want to make huds out as the bad guy ? Rec players are going to be crushed by pro players and regs with or with out huds. So what is the difference if they are there or not?? Huds have a number of good applications stoping collusion and cheating like bot rings. Pokerstars just had one in plo if I'm not mistaken and the thread was published on 2plus2. They found this out by using the data that huds gave them. Funny thing is stars would have never said a word. Also if you don't no what the pot ripper scandal was go look that up guys with huds yes that evil software help put a stop to it.

http://youtu.be/GiyiAb3iFaI

lol 2002

Disagree, I think HuDs can make someone a better player. Seating scripts sound unfair, but idc if we are all or some of us use HuDs, but I can def see why sites banned them.

Well regs would be watching their own stats on their huds and adjust to close up the leaks too. The main use I can see of stats requiring a massive sample is to exploit "fish" using datamined hands.

Some reg players think they have a higher winrate with huds. Where does that money come from?

The answer is nowhere - an individual reg just gets the money from fish quicker who stop playing quicker

+1

Just curious, are these changes something that can be enforced, or will it be like russian ptr style, where ppl will be able to circumvent.

This rule cannot be enforce, at least in the long run.
HHs are just easier to parser for the tracker in order to get the data into the DB.
Scraping solutions will be developed and from it,a HH will be generated and the HUD will be populated.
A well known bot is using this technology to gather the info on the tables, so for the happy people in the thread, you are naive

clueless, yeah the fish wont be losing fast now because the regs don't have HUDs. Always amazes me how there is so many posters here with multiple thousands of posts that are utterly clueless about online poker.

^post counts isn't equal to poker skillz, most 2p2 users are NVG regs

in aggregate terms, since regs can't multi table as much without huds, reg/rec ratio will improve, therefore much more likely money will be sucked out from the economy at a slower rate.

you seem to be even more clueless than the guys you referred to, broski.

Isn't it even more amazing when they populate the boardrooms of billion dollar companies or other dominant positions in the industry? You got guys like Tim Stone, street people, rabble, on record calling off with near perfect precision the outcome of the Timex bet months before its unfortunate culmination. Amaya's untoward adventures in sh*tting on the dinner table starting early november and ending in unceremonious total retreat the following January. All immediately predicted with stunning perspicacity in the thread of the Dunce's own making.

FullTilt, all respect due, decides to unilaterally axe half their offerings in a transparent money grab, traffic plummets. Who knew? Well...

No links, I know, even if I wasn't too lazy to provide them it would still be cherry picking, unless of course there was a discernible pattern with predictive value. But those orchards are already labored by Great Talent.

In such skillful hands the future pickings will no doubt be lush.

The Assassinato HUD was created by an MTT player with primarily MTTs in mind so it's gotta be pretty useful even with a smaller sample size.

Yeah there isn't going to be tables with three fish at them because regs can't mass table as easily, at anything above baby stakes at least. I think we can just assume with nlhe cash games going forward 97% of the time there will be only one fish per table. I mean if u actually play mid stakes+ as opposed to just posting in NVG u know this. These changes or any changes really aren't saving the fish in the 2015 nlhe cash world.

Dad, I've made a living
Outta reading people HUD stats
Knowing what their range was
By the way they played their hands

You gotta known when to hold'em
Know when to fold'em
Know when to walk away
And when to run

Read this. Read it again. Read it once more.

They have a huge impact. Reg vs Reg. They have zero impact against fish.
Which is ironic since it's the clueless, ignorant fish that are complaining itt.

Read above, you utter moron.

+1
This must have been how Galileo Galilei felt - surrounded by thousands of ignorant idiots.


Final reminder that fish can buy one of those satanic HUDs for just $100. Also, HUD's make poker as a strategy game so much more interesting, in-depth and complex. When I first started playing poker as a fish losing at 10nl the first thing I did was buy HM2 for the simple fact that it brought more entertainment to a session.

[QUOTE=TR7isBetterThanU;48281327]They have a huge impact. Reg vs Reg. They have zero impact against fish.
Which is ironic since it's the clueless, ignorant fish that are complaining itt.\]

So why can't Regs just try to better each other using their own brains and poker strategy?

Also they have a huge impact against 'fish' when you've been multi-tabling and haven't paid attention to any hands which a new opponent has played. If you can check his stats for the hands he has played you can draw an opinion as opposed to being completely clueless which is what you should be if you can't be bothered to watch the table or are incapable of watching the table because you are playing too many.

[QUOTE]Read above, you utter moron.\] if you're a good player at the stakes you play and not just a HUD button pusher you should welcome these changes as you're edge against other regs will go up.

[QUOTE]This must have been how Galileo Galilei felt - surrounded by thousands of ignorant idiots.] lol. The voices of the many have spoken, they want a fair game. If Pokerstars offers an option for special tables where players may use any software they want will you play there?

[QUOTE]Final reminder that fish can buy one of those satanic HUDs for just $100. Also, HUD's make poker as a strategy game so much more interesting, in-depth and complex. When I first started playing poker as a fish losing at 10nl the first thing I did was buy HM2 for the simple fact that it brought more entertainment to a session.]

Poker is an interesting strategical game but players should be using their own skills to solve it, not following in play computer based directions.

[QUOTE=richdog;48281697][QUOTE=TR7isBetterThanU;48281327]They have a huge impact. Reg vs Reg. They have zero impact against fish.
Which is ironic since it's the clueless, ignorant fish that are complaining itt.\]

So why can't Regs just try to better each other using their own brains and poker strategy?

Also they have a huge impact against 'fish' when you've been multi-tabling and haven't paid attention to any hands which a new opponent has played. If you can check his stats for the hands he has played you can draw an opinion as opposed to being completely clueless which is what you should be if you can't be bothered to watch the table or are incapable of watching the table because you are playing too many.

[QUOTE]Read above, you utter moron.\] if you're a good player at the stakes you play and not just a HUD button pusher you should welcome these changes as you're edge against other regs will go up.

[QUOTE]This must have been how Galileo Galilei felt - surrounded by thousands of ignorant idiots.] lol. The voices of the many have spoken, they want a fair game. If Pokerstars offers an option for special tables where players may use any software they want will you play there?

You seem to be referring to a simple HM2/PT HUD and advanced software that tells the user what to do as though they're synonymous. I'm obviously against the latter.
As I'm not getting through I'll simply state all the stats I use on my HM2 HUD:
Line 1: VPIP | Pfr | Agg
Line 2: TOT 3bet | TOT 4bet | 5bet is >AK
Line 3: Ft3bet | Ft4bet | Ft5bet
Line 4: TOT flop cbet in 3BP | TOT turn cbet in 3BP| TOT river cbet in 3BP
Line 5: TOT flop fold to cbet 3BP | TOT turn fold to cbet 3BP | TOT river fold to cbet 3BP
Line 6: TOT flop fold to cbet SRP | TOT turn fold to cbet SRP | TOT river fold to cbet SRP.
I only look at this vs regs and it's hardly high level software assistance, is it?
Vs fish:
I know all of the regs in my player pool so as soon as I see an unknown, not topping up, gold star or less, from China (jokes), open limp, not hidden from search feature, I'll mark him down as a Possible Fish on the vanilla Pokerstars notes colours. Then I shall play vs fish population reads and make a note of specific things I notice when playing them. I don't use the HUD at all.
Hope this brings some clarity. Now buy HM2, copy these stats and go forth and win, HUD haters; I'm sure that'll work out, right?

Uwotm8????

I dont know what stakes u play but at any meaningful stakes huds give u next to nothing vs regs. Its not 2009 where teh avg nl100 reg had like 10 different numbers aka leaks you couldcrelentlessly exploit. In teh current environment regs try to play gto vs each other or at least wat they think gto is - and guess wat: gto cant be exploited even if you have teh uberhud.

On teh flipside you play exploitable poker vs fish and teh hud determines literally everything, ur entire ranges will be entirely depedendant on teh fishs stats.
To illustrate that while you wouldnt wanna 3bet AJo vs an 11/0 you would 3bet 100% of teh time vs a 70/35. (Theres zero chance ud know those numbers 12tabling without a hud)
Your ranges vs regs in contradiction in teh same spot will be moar or less static unless its one of teh v few regs who folds like moar to 70% to 3bets.

Teh halfwisdom u spread here just boggles teh mind.

The same stakes as you Timothy and I can't believe a veteran reg like yourself can be so naive as to think the average reg doesn't have leaks.
The last time I checked you had a w/r less than 1 this year and I can tell you now you have some leaks. Not that I'd post them here because that would be a dick move and fwiw I like/agree with you a lot on here.
But are you seriously telling me that (the v few) regs winning at a 4 w/r have less leaks than regs winning at a 3 win rate? Same goes for regs winning at a 3 win rate to those winning at a 2 win rate and even more so to break-even regs.
Fwiw I don't fit into the "GTO" mould that most regs try to play at. Usually regs winning at a >3 win rate I've previously thought were fish regs due to unconventional/odd plays compared to the norm/GTO approach.

^ as an example I give you Gotnuts999 at our stakes.
The guy somehow crushes despite me previously thinking he was a total tard.
Exploitative vs regs is the way forward.

Sure they can buy them- but they're terrible for the games. they don't make the games interesting at all.they enable people to mass multitable, making the games tight slow and boring. i grant you complex and in depth which is an argument against them. you want losers to have fun losing money at a simple game and to keep playing.

think about where the money really comes from in poker. you're offering people nothing other than entertainment for their hard earned money. take away the fun and any remote chance they had at winning and they stop playing.

but of course this site is filled with people who 1) think the sites owe them a living 2) think fish grow on trees and will always be plentiful regardless of the conditions of the game. bunch of self entitled 23 year old anti social math nerds who have zero common sense.

the only good argument for not banning them is if the ban would basically be impossible to enforce.

Anyone who thinks players with huds don't pay attention to hands needs to stop talking because they have not the slightest clue

The absolute poker scandal would never have been solved with out poker tracker just saying now in a world with bot rings everywhere they will be taking more money out of the poker Eco system then anyone with a hud could

bot rings wouldn't exist if it wasn't for all of this horse **** software. if your argument is the software will be used anyway so allow it i can understand that but it is absolutely terrible for the long term health of the games.

I lolled.

InB4 HEM/PT change their marketing so that instead of saying "Boost your winrate", the ads will say "HUDs bring more entertainment to your sessions".