you won the biscuit champ. congratulations

I think it's pretty much inevitable that Stars will eventually also ban HUDs and scripts, unless they want to be known as the only site that is "bumhunter-friendly". The whole industry is turning away from software aids, primarily because customers - on the whole - don't like/trust them.
MGN, Bovada and Unibet have taken multiple measures to reduce or prevent bumhunting and software use, and those sites are winning customers over from Pokerstars and iPoker every day. (The aforementioned networks have bucked the industry trend and increased traffic in the last year. They are still tiny in comparison to Stars, but there's a domino effect in progress.)

+1

thats a very big difference

I do like the idea of no huds,but what are they going to do against huds like holdem indicator I use this on bovada and it does work on the wsop NV site as well, I think real time stat tracking huds like javaro and Holdem indicator are fine but most arent aware of these types of programms so the ones continuing to use them will have a big advantage.... when i first started using huds on BO and wsop I was able to spot others using them based on their stats so I was a little agitated realizing I could have been using a hud this whole time and was playing against those with one, so to add counter balance can Party just offer its own personalized HUD, stars too?

I wonder how much of antonius commets have to do with this, if a whale like him openly talks about not playing on certain sites because of software being used its more serious than we think

Well, him and people who don't understand the software they are against, and don't want to put the work in want to blame poker software for how much more difficult the games have become.

It's equivalent to uninformed fans of sports that always want to blame the manager for their team not doing good. But the manager isn't the one hitting the ball or shooting the basket. It's always the easiest thing to blame though. And of course players who are losing players want to believe it's because of software, because it can't possibly be because they aren't any good. Standard.

But it has nothing to do with software making the games tougher. If you're a bad player, a HUD isn't going to magically make you better.

In a year from now the games will be even more difficult, software or no software. If you want to blame anything, blame governments who are wiping out industries by banning banking transactions so that their buddies can take over.

I would compare 3rd party software use to football hooliganism.

At the moment, poker sites are in a similar position to football clubs in Eastern Europe. So few non-fighting people go to watch matches that a significant proportion of their business is from hooligans. The clubs don't want to ban these people and lose what few customers they have. In the long run though they have to clear them out so that normal people with actual money fill the stadia again, as has happened in Western Europe over the past decades. Certainly football beats ice hockey in terms of TV viewers so there is no reason why it shouldn't get as many people to watch it live as ice hockey gets.

Same with poker sites. When they clear out (or make behave) the problem customers, revenue will drop in the short term but in the long term it's the way to get the customers they want. These people still exist but they're playing live now.

Lots of problems with your analogy though. Casual poker players won't play 12+ tables. They play 1-2 tables. So the amount of traffic they have to bring back if they lose regs is a huge multiplier.

I think you need software regulation for online games. I just hope the people making the decisions know what software really does. And most importantly, they understand that online poker is not live poker. If you don't want to use software, you shouldn't be playing online, go play live.

If you're a good poker player at the stakes you play your edge against other regs will go up in the absence of HUDS and other in play assistance.

If you play at a stake you are incapable of winning at without in play computer assistance you'll turn into a loser.

Poker as it should be.

You're still free to study and improve off the table but most players are just lazy and think they have a right to buy software to tell them exactly what to do whilst playing. There is hardly any difference between this and the bots which everyone is upset about.

Please show me this software that tells you exactly what to do...

Look at the ridiculous HUD example in the new Pokerstars thread. Although yes, there is a technical difference between the HUD advising a villain folds 90% on K high flops and the HUD saying 'bet'.

However the players 'skill' in such an example in irrelevant, he's just a button pusher who could be replaced by a further line of code.

How many Khi flops have happened? How often would you expect him to fold on a Khi flop? How many opportunities has he had to fold a Khi fop to our cbet? What kind of hand do we have? How often does he stab on Khi flops? How many opportunities has he had to stab (we check back)? How many streets do we plan to barrel? Does he make up for his overfolding oh Khi flops by overfolding turns to cbet, if so by how much, on which runouts? How does he react to having his stabs raised? If we forego bluffing, is his C/X/X range completely unbalanced? If so, to what degree? When we have a nutted....

lol yea poker sites exist so people can make a living playing baby stakes

bull****. if regs could only play a few tables games would be way better and recs would play more. the reg to fish ratio wouldnt be so skewed and you'd actually get multiple fish at a table, faster games, looser games and more fun for the losing players keeping them playing more.

anyone saying huds don't help them or make the game worse is either ignorant or totally full of ****.
as for thinking no huds will make the games worse- that's absolutely hilarious.
live games are still really good and not much worse than say 5 years ago because there isn't a distorted reg to fish ratio. if tomorrow regs could somehow magically play 24 tables the games would be horrendous.


it's amazing how people still swear the rake is the problem with online poker. effective rake is way lower than it used to be -it's tons of other things that have changed to make games worse that are the problem with online poker.
the line of thinking is totally warped. it's like giving two plants the same amount of water but one no sunlight and blaming the water when the plant with no sunlight dies.


fish don't just lose x dollars and stop playing regardless of their enjoyment level.the more fun they have the more money they will lose in the long run. too many people on here are just self entitled pricks that think merely by existing people have to be willing to play poker and dump money to them or that a business has to exist whereby they can make money from a ****ing game. i'm glad poker exists but nobody owes it to me.party poker doesn't exist to make other people money.i swear some of you think that even if no sites were making any money they would be screwing you by closing up shop.

the only possible legitimate argument against banning huds is that people are gonna use huds anyway and the sites won't catch them.

+1000000 Thank you for writing this. Wow I almost fell out of my chair reading that guys post.

Back in the day, plenty of us 12+ tabled without a HUD. The games were a lot more fun back then, for both pro's and recs.

Or... lets hear you cry because you're afraid to play poker without your crutch.

Well to start its technically note caddy that gives you most of what you deem to be "telling you what to do". Also im sure it took him a good deal of time to build that HUD, you dont just buy it and it automatically has all that info. Everyone has the same access to this as well, for about 100 bucks total you can have the exact same thing. So to your point that all these regs are lazy and entitled, its actually recs and fish who are complaining who are the lazy ones and who dont want to put in any work.

Aside from that almost all of those stats are completely useless over a small sample. Where HUDs benefit most players is reg vs reg senarios, not reg vs fish/recs. I can pretty much guarantee if you gave assassinatos HUD to a fish they would still get crushed, and id bet all the money I have on that. To someone who doesnt know any better sure it might look like it has all the answers for you, but I assure you unless you put the time in to understanding it, building it, studying all the info and how to apply it, and have a good understanding of game theory youll still be a looser in the games.

The only thing now is fish wont have a reason to say theyre loosing....

you need these people to have fun and keep losing money. boring **** tight slow games don't do this. sites don't exist so people like you and me can make money. you need those players for the long term health of the games. not people artificially skewing the shark to fish ratio because they're software enables them to.

For huds not having much impact people sure seem to want them.

HUDS disappearing will be good for the overall game just not multi table stat reading grinders.

Next thing you no hud haters are going to be saying the sites rigged or that players a cheater lol #yourstillgoingbust with or without huds

If that's so true ....then what are u worried about ?

Just wow at this post and so many like it from the online pros/TR7s ITT. Ridiculous how they treat recs and think the game is all about them ...yet they can't even see how they are destroying it. Like turkeys voting for xmas

this

That's funny coming from someone who can't read numbers on a screen so supports banning it for those that put in the time and work