Hopes on Iveypoker?

Someone could step up and earn a lot of fame hehe.

Come on Roy you're not even getting 100% rb anyways!!!

Some questions for you Steve:

(1) Will you be sending proper notice of this to all players or will PS be taking the sneaky 2+2 only approach like you did on introduction of FX charges (so most players never hear about it)?

(2) What is the underling philosophy now? Does management consider that its not enough for the company to make $420m profit (EBITDA) on its $1100m revenues and so you have to squeeze even more out of the players?

(3) Has anything that's happened recently caused you to pause and consider your position at Stars?

C'mon you guys. One of you needs to step up to this challenge/opportunity. Players are pissed and want somewhere to move to. Offer some bonuses, increase the guarantees, invest more in the s/ware again, add a few servers. One of you has the chance to take over leadership if you're willing to take a view and invest now.

PS used to talk to us like with some integrity and respect. Now its all corporate BS spin.

JK I know, but they have increased MTT fees overall pretty badly, but mostly in more back-door ways: increased proportion of turbos (with rake same as regular tourneys), weighted guarantees towards the turbos etc, introduced faster formats like spin & go (which is dice-rolling, not poker), switched from rebuys (zero rake on rebuys) to re-entries (full rake), doubled rake on hypers, ... [watch this space]

What can be done?
Well there's no magic answer - they're doing these things because they can - its basically monopoly abuse. But there are a few things to think about which all help a bit:

(1) Play less on PS and more elsewhere - that will help other sites step up to create a more competitive business (= good for players).

(2) When people ask you where to play, recommend a different site.

(3) If you're a player in the media then say what you think about this when you're interviewed.

(4) For those who are really pissed and have the time/energy, contact the anti-trust authority in your country. (The body whose job it is to protect consumers from monopoly abuse). Tell them one company has become dominant in the industry and, having reduced the completion to an ineffective level + bought and run down the number 2 player, and despite making exceptional margins (38% EBITDA margins) on the business already, is squeezing its customers (you) even harder. They have the power to make PS adopt fair practices and/or split itself (eg sell Tilt to a real competitor). Even if they don't take short term action Ican guarantee that if they start sniffing around PS/Amaya will be very careful about doing anything else.

Your authority is listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_regulator

(5) If you're a member of the PPA, tell them you want them to adopt a policy of lobbying for US deregulation without allowing Stars back in for period (eg 10 years) as that is now in the interests of the players. (Sadly I already know what PPAs answer will be but it won't hurt to make the point).

(6) Support actions like mass sit-outs. Don't just expect everyone else to do it or take a short-term view.

(7) When PS next send you one of those surveys, say what you think.

(8) If the other sites make some serious efforts to build their biz then support them.

As usual, stellar work. This should be stickied.

That's quality, raidalot.

what a ****ing bull****. those amaya mofos don't give a **** on players. they only care about their profits. and that lying bastard ceo...thank you for destroying this industry!

Here's some math to show how these changes affect Hyper sng SNE grinders:

At the $100 level of HU hypers, rake is going up by $.37

The new structure would require you to play 80808 games to reach SNE. ($2.25 * 5.5 vpp per $ * 80808 games = 1 million vpps)

80808 * -$0.37 = -$29899

So someone currently playing $100 HU Hyper SNGs who makes exactly SNE each year will make about 30k less under the new rake structure.


For the $100 level of 6max hyper satellites, rake is going up by $1.17.

The new structure would require you to play 58089 games to reach SNE. ($3.13 rake * 5.5 vpp per $ * 58089 games = 1 million vpps)

58089 * -$1.17 = -$67964

So someone currently playing $100 6max hyper satellites who makes exactly SNE each year will make about 68k less under the new rake structure.

edit: simplified math

When I saw title "changes to rake", I thought, hm, maybe the actually lowered it.

So sad

Amaya translation: There's still over $30k per SNE we need to figure out how to get back.

Next announcement:

This PS-site is so ****ing ****ed
Bye I am gone.

wow! BIG DISLIKE

I mean I could be totally wrong and please correct me if I am. But doesn't other sites still take atleast the same if not more rake than stars? And there's alot of people winning over there even though that's the case?

I mean ofc everyone here think it sucks, anything else would be out of the question. We're not going to win as much money, period. But I mean to say it's the end of online poker and that it's all over, ur gonna quit and what not. I mean come on. It sounds like you're all a bunch of spoiled kids that's never had a real job. This is the reality of the world we're living in. Conditions for workers gets worse and worse while the big man gets even more money, that's how it works out in the real world. Why should it be different for you?

The terms have been quite ****ing good for a long time and if this makes it so that you can't be profitable anymore then maybe it's about time that you started doing something else.

I read that alot of people say that the rec players won't even notice the changes and that they're doing this to get more rec players in the game. Well that should only help you shouldn't it? I don't know.. I just feel there's alot of bs from alot of people here, you're ****ing naive to think that things will always stay the same.

I get that everyone is mad, that's totally understandable. I agree that they have not handled this in a good way and I don't necessarily agree with the changes. But alot of people were saying some years back that the old players had to adapt to the new game or "go under", and now that it's time for you to adapt and learn how to be profitable with theese new changes you're all like "**** it I'm gonna quit", "I'm withdrawing my broll" and what not. Well go ahead then give up and leave, btw welcome to the world that 99% of the people live in.


TL;DR: Life sucks, learn to deal with it.

So basically Amaya bought personal info and the Stars name to cut their casino infiltration costs - okay, great, good for you. Could have probably accomplished that for much less then $6 billion but I guess it's difficult getting that sort of float without the Stars name attached to the deal.

Whatever metrics the brilliant analysts have enveloped to move forward in this way - I hope they were completely off and fail miserably - and if history is any indication in these sorts of business deals in other industries - they will.

Congrats on attempting to destroy online poker indirectly - other operators can now stumble to more players while they stumble to keep them.

'We' being who? The handful of outraged 2+2ers or the other 99% of Stars' clientele who are blissfully unaware or unconcerned about any changes

Online poker is dying. Instead of trying to save it let's just make a tiny bit extra money before it does. Brilliant ****ing plan Amaya.

+1

damn sorry, how blond of me

Let's give this thread 5 stars.

DNegs Tweet saying he'd address this later after getting the "facts" says it all. The first response was "What changes?"

this is actually the best idea Ive read by far

Xpost from high stakes:
OP:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...15&postcount=1

"Cliffs:

-Link to Stars Steve's table of cash game increases: http://i.imgur.com/zZi6n61.jpg

-50/100+ stays the same, 10/20 hu is doubled, 10/20 6max stays the same

-25/50 rake is increased hugely:
HU: +400%
3-4: +33%
5+:+67%

-To figure out how this effects you, go to PT4/My Reports/New Report/Player Report/Player Per Hand, then filter for the relevant site and stakes in the filters tab, for example http://gyazo.com/85916884e0d5177c6357b91ef5fa87a1

-My example: I didn't play 10/20 hu this year (and 50/100+ is unchanged), so I filtered for only my Stars/FTP hands and then looked at 'My rake contributed' by number of players, then (since all pots at high stakes are capped rake) I can just multiply my rake contributed by the factor of the proposed changes (e.g., my hu rake x4). Example of PT4: http://gyazo.com/6743b98c5c146a0734b2cce69b866d29

-Results are that I'll pay around 13.5k more hu, around 7345 more 3-4h, and around 13270 more 5+ handed, for around 34115 more total.

-If you're a hu reg or a high volume 25/50 reg this will effect you much more.

-These numbers are lowballed by a significant amount, since only around 4/5th of my yearly volume is in this database, and there's still 1/6th of the year left. So, an adjusted number would be around $46,600 more in rake per year. I think most people can also expect a higher proportion of 25/50 and a higher volume on Amaya in 2015 due to game conditions.

-My total expected rake was around 100k a year so this is around a 45% increase.

-If you're a 25/50+ reg you can probably expect around +50% rake on average."

Unbelievable.

hopefully daniel realises that this is not acceptable and speaks to his company, he left a tweet saying he would give a detailed statement, honestly im hoping he trys to save them from doing this because we all know it will go down hill if this does actually go through, however my mind tells me dnegs will make up some stupid ******ed excuse that this extra rake fees etc is good for the poker community!!!! wohooooo